McKenzie: Is there any doubt Russell would at least get 5 yrs x $5.5 million as UFA?

[zukes]

I will start this by saying that I don't want to pay Russell as much as McKenzie is suggesting and actually think that if he does re-sign it'll be closer to $4million.

That being said, I do not understand the majority opinion here on Wideman and Russell. These guys are our #4 and #5 defenseman. Yes Wideman is overpaid when he is not scoring, but last year he was probably on par with what he is paid, especially with his improvements on D. He has learned how to position himself pretty well to make up for his total lack of speed. Russell is a shot blocking machine that makes good first passes. Sure he has his defensive blunders, but most do as well.

What does everyone think other teams have a #4 & #5 defenseman? Very few teams have the luxury to have a guy as good as either of these 2 as a #3, and we have them at #4 & #5.

If your argument is you'd rather have a guy like Nakladal or Wothersppon and use the money saved to get a few better forwards, I can understand that, but people thinking that we can somehow improve the D by shedding these and save money are out to lunch in my opinion.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by zukes

I will start this by saying that I don't want to pay Russell as much as McKenzie is suggesting and actually think that if he does re-sign it'll be closer to $4million.

That being said, I do not understand the majority opinion here on Wideman and Russell. These guys are our #4 and #5 defenseman. Yes Wideman is overpaid when he is not scoring, but last year he was probably on par with what he is paid, especially with his improvements on D. He has learned how to position himself pretty well to make up for his total lack of speed. Russell is a shot blocking machine that makes good first passes. Sure he has his defensive blunders, but most do as well.

What does everyone think other teams have a #4 & #5 defenseman? Very few teams have the luxury to have a guy as good as either of these 2 as a #3, and we have them at #4 & #5.

If your argument is you'd rather have a guy like Nakladal or Wothersppon and use the money saved to get a few better forwards, I can understand that, but people thinking that we can somehow improve the D by shedding these and save money are out to lunch in my opinion.

Can't agree with this. Russell throws the puck away blindly up the boards a lot. And it's not so much "blunders" as just not being able physically to do a good job down low.

I don't mind Wideman as much as some here, but I don't see the improvement on defence. And he simply has not been able to recapture his offence, which is his strong suit.

Are they 4/5 D-men on a lot of teams? Well, crappy ones, yes. But I'd say a lot of decent teams have equivalents or better at #4 or 5, and certainly many good teams do, which is where the Flames want to be.

[saillias]

If you really think very few teams have guys as good as Russell and Wideman at 2 and 3 I would like to introduce you to the Central Division. And also California.

[FiveSeven]

Russell for 5~ million? Could you imagine? Every single time he gets hemmed in our zone there would be pages of hate. I wouldn't like him for anymore than 4.4 and if that's not possible then I'm sure there's lots of interest in him.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Can't agree with this. Russell throws the puck away blindly up the boards a lot. And it's not so much "blunders" as just not being able physically to do a good job down low.

I don't mind Wideman as much as some here, but I don't see the improvement on defence. And he simply has not been able to recapture his offence, which is his strong suit.

Are they 4/5 D-men on a lot of teams? Well, crappy ones, yes. But I'd say a lot of decent teams have equivalents or better at #4 or 5, and certainly many good teams do, which is where the Flames want to be.

No doubt there are better 4/5 D in the league, the question is where are the Flames going to find them? I don't see anyone on the farm ready to step into those roles and if they go UFA they are likely to pay more for no better. The Flames still have a couple of years to wait for the Andersons and Kylingtons to be ready. I can see the Flames getting rid of one of Russel or Wideman for cap reasons but don't be surprised if that makes the D worse next year.

[theTrumanShow]

So if he is worth that as a UFA, should he not garner quite a significant return considering his current relatively low salary? I say sell sell sell and if the Flames are interested they should try and sign him on July 1, barring there have been deals to move Wideman and Smid/Engelland.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by zukes

I will start this by saying that I don't want to pay Russell as much as McKenzie is suggesting and actually think that if he does re-sign it'll be closer to $4million.

That being said, I do not understand the majority opinion here on Wideman and Russell. These guys are our #4 and #5 defenseman. Yes Wideman is overpaid when he is not scoring, but last year he was probably on par with what he is paid, especially with his improvements on D. He has learned how to position himself pretty well to make up for his total lack of speed. Russell is a shot blocking machine that makes good first passes. Sure he has his defensive blunders, but most do as well.

What does everyone think other teams have a #4 & #5 defenseman? Very few teams have the luxury to have a guy as good as either of these 2 as a #3, and we have them at #4 & #5.

If your argument is you'd rather have a guy like Nakladal or Wothersppon and use the money saved to get a few better forwards, I can understand that, but people thinking that we can somehow improve the D by shedding these and save money are out to lunch in my opinion.

Russell and Wideman are our #3 and #4 defensemen. Hamilton is our fifth as measured by TOI. You might disagree with how much Hartley is playing them but the numbers don't lie. Engelland received more ice time than Hamilton in Wideman's first game out but not in the Leafs game.

IMO there is a big drop in quality after Gio and Brodie. And other than Russell, the cap hits for #3 through #7 are exceeding their play this year. That has to change for this team to improve.

[Inglewood Jack]

what? there's people that want to see several more years of this guy dropping to his knees or stomach at the first sight of an incoming forward? only to get walked around by that forward cause everyone knows that's exactly what he's going to do?

Russell was a not bad bottom half D when he first came to us. but then he bought into his own shot blocking hero hype and now that's all he tries to do instead of actually trying to get the puck. would be fine if he was used sparingly and sheltered, but sadly he's a Bob pet and that will never happen with the current lineup and coaching staff.

[GGG]

Let someone else pay him 5x5. 3.5 x 3 tops and even then I don't think he is the right fit.

Russels contract will really show which GM's are old school and which gm's are advanced stats followers. The guy that signs russel 5x5 doesn't believe in possession metrics at all.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by edslunch

No doubt there are better 4/5 D in the league, the question is where are the Flames going to find them? I don't see anyone on the farm ready to step into those roles and if they go UFA they are likely to pay more for no better. The Flames still have a couple of years to wait for the Andersons and Kylingtons to be ready. I can see the Flames getting rid of one of Russel or Wideman for cap reasons but don't be surprised if that makes the D worse next year.

Here's a list of pending UFAs - http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-centra...ear=2016&pos=D

Russell's been getting hemmed in the zone for 3 years straight now. I'm confident you could find someone on that list who can get hemmed in the zone for a lot less.

[spuzzum]

If we have this top notch defense with three number 1 defense men, followed by two players that "would be" paid 5 million plus each for the next season, how the hell are we in 6th place in the Pacific 4 points above the Oilers?

[Brick]

1. Trade Russell for pick(s).

2. Go after Travis Hamonic.

[DynastyEra]

Russell benefits from Hartley's system. Every time he and Hamilton are on the ice you can practically throw away any offensive zone time. He is so easily overwhelmed with even a light forecheck and isn't good enough positionally to make up for his lack of size.

Shot blocking is something we all are definitely undervaluing, especially with how much he blocks compared to Bouma who is seemingly always nursing an injury from blocking shots.
I do not see value in a 5.0-5.5 Russell who is in his prime and not improving his composure, probably the most needed skill to have as a 30 year old defenseman.

If he is valued around the league as Bob says, the time is now to trade him. Great depth piece for a team looking for an added weapon (shot blocking) going into the playoffs.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DynastyEra

Russell benefits from Hartley's system. Every time he and Hamilton are on the ice you can practically throw away any offensive zone time. He is so easily overwhelmed with even a light forecheck and isn't good enough positionally to make up for his lack of size.

Shot blocking is something we all are definitely undervaluing, especially with how much he blocks compared to Bouma who is seemingly always nursing an injury from blocking shots.
I do not see value in a 5.0-5.5 Russell who is in his prime and not improving his composure, probably the most needed skill to have as a 30 year old defenseman.

If he is valued around the league as Bob says, the time is now to trade him. Great depth piece for a team looking for an added weapon (shot blocking) going into the playoffs.

Dougie's underlying numbers are fantastic so this really should tell you how bad Russell is.

It's actually very disappointing to hear that the Flames are even interested in re-signing him, unless of course they're just trying to raise his trade value (which appears to be working).

You're either a genius or a mad man, Brad.

[DynastyEra]

Originally Posted by Brick

1. Trade Russell for pick(s).

2. Go after Travis Hamonic.

Gio - Brodie
Hamonic - Hamilton

Sounds like a dream deal to me.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by edslunch

No doubt there are better 4/5 D in the league, the question is where are the Flames going to find them? I don't see anyone on the farm ready to step into those roles and if they go UFA they are likely to pay more for no better. The Flames still have a couple of years to wait for the Andersons and Kylingtons to be ready. I can see the Flames getting rid of one of Russel or Wideman for cap reasons but don't be surprised if that makes the D worse next year.

The Flames are still rebuilding. So you develop them or trade for young guys who will be there at the right time, at the right price. You don't overpay a guy because he's here right now.

And has been said, there are cheaper UFAs who I think can do Russell's job.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

If we have this top notch defense with three number 1 defense men, followed by two players that "would be" paid 5 million plus each for the next season, how the hell are we in 6th place in the Pacific 4 points above the Oilers?

And there it is.

[DynastyEra]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Dougie's underlying numbers are fantastic so this really should tell you how bad Russell is.

It's actually very disappointing to hear that the Flames are even interested in re-signing him, unless of course they're just trying to raise his trade value (which appears to be working).

You're either a genius or a mad man, Brad.

It always seem that whenever Dougie feeds Russ the puck for a breakout he is helping out his little brother. "Here buddy! Practice your outlet!"

Russell becomes more movable with Dougie finally settling into the system.

[Brick]

Flames' Russell is not a shutdown defenceman:

http://www.tsn.ca/flames-russell-is-...ceman-1.436533

[Karl]

I don't want Russell re-signed. He is not an irreplaceable player and he isn't that good. This team is still in a rebuild and it needs to free up spots for other guys to play when they can. Also, since it seems Russell has trade value and is on an expiring contract, why not take advantage of that and trade him if you can? If the Flames are worse off for now without him, then so be it. I don't think it'll be worth it to re-sign Kris Russell.

This team is likely stuck with the contracts of Wideman, Smid, Engelland, Stajan & at least 2.2 million of Raymond's contract until at least the end of next year, and these guys cannot be moved IMO unless you want to go the buyout route with them, or take on another equally bad or worse contract in exchange. Just because these guys are on our team with bad contracts should not give us any excuse to re-sign Russell for 5+ million plus term and maybe a NTC or NMC and create another bad contract on this team.

If, for some reason, Russell isn't traded, I'd rather just let him sign somewhere else for however much that GM wants.