2 dead & 6 injured as teens take after hours sled ride down Winsport bobsleigh track

[fanman]

So tragic, condolences to the family and friends of these boys.

Add me to the list of guys that made some pretty stupid decisions in his teens. It`s so sad to see this result. The line between fun challenge and too dangerous/stupid is all too often too blurry for teenage boys.

I hope the others that are in critical condition will pull through and be able to enjoy their lives. They`ll probably have a real hard time dealing with the trauma of what happened, and I hope they receive all the support they need.

[ScorchyScorch]

I've luged down the track. You go crazy fast. Even doing it with the proper equipment and instruction, the person in front of me crashed and got hurt if I remember correctly. A steel gate in the way would be devastating.

[T@T]

Apparently security footage saw 10 kids scale the fence, anyone heard anything on this?

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by T@T

Apparently security footage saw 10 kids scale the fence, anyone heard anything on this?

Saturday morning, during the first announcements, they said they were looking for two additional teens, who hadn't been amongst the injured, but later they said that they weren't looking for anything else.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Am I the only person that doesn't remember doing anything life-threateningly stupid when they were a teenager?

So you never drove too fast, got drunk, got in a fight, raced on your bike, skate boarded, ran from the cops and so on?

I'm starting to think this was a pretty innocent accident. I've even been down the bobsled track with professional drivers and I honestly think that before the news of this accident I wouldn't remember that they were joined at the bottom and certainly wouldn't have expected or anticipated that there was a gate or wall across one of these runs. While I wouldn't put any blame on Winsport for this, I also have a hard time condemning these kids for what happened.

I think there's a term for it, its pretty natural, almost a self defence mechanism, when faced with news of a death to blame the victims for what happened.

[Ace]

Obviously easy to say now, but that sure seems like a pretty stupid design for a switch, you'd think they would at least have a way for both tracks to be clear the whole way down. Could easily be an incident just from human error, or a mechanical malfunction.

I'm sure there's probably a good reason why it has to be this way, but I don't understand it.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Ace

Obviously easy to say now, but that sure seems like a pretty stupid design for a switch, you'd think they would at least have a way for both tracks to be clear the whole way down. Could easily be an incident just from human error, or a mechanical malfunction.

I'm sure there's probably a good reason why it has to be this way, but I don't understand it.

It's actually a very good design for a switch. When used properly, by professionals/proper crew, during the day when you can see. There would be no reason why an accident like this would ever happen. The switchgate makes up part of the wall for the track in use. So it's a big, solid wall. The reason the track was likely built like that? Can save money if all you need is a different top but an identical bottom run. Since the wall part of the track is required (as bobsleds and luger's occasionally bounce off of them) it's got to be sturdy, and you need something where the tracks meet up, you can't just have a Y junction.

But when you break in at night, don't know the track, don't have the proper gear, there's very dim light, and you run the track anyhow, well...

[T@T]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

It's actually a very good design for a switch. When used properly, by professionals/proper crew, during the day when you can see. There would be no reason why an accident like this would ever happen. The switchgate makes up part of the wall for the track in use. So it's a big, solid wall. The reason the track was likely built like that? Can save money if all you need is a different top but an identical bottom run. Since the wall part of the track is required (as bobsleds and luger's occasionally bounce off of them) it's got to be sturdy, and you need something where the tracks meet up, you can't just have a Y junction.

But when you break in at night, don't know the track, there's very dim light, and you run the track anyhow, well...

As noted people have snuck in and went down that track before and I'm sure COP would have heard of it, under proper use it's fine but how about even a sign at the top warning improper users that the track has a potentially fatal gate half way down. or even a safety net before the gate.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by blueski

So you never drove too fast, got drunk, got in a fight, raced on your bike, skate boarded, ran from the cops and so on?

I'm starting to think this was a pretty innocent accident. I've even been down the bobsled track with professional drivers and I honestly think that before the news of this accident I wouldn't remember that they were joined at the bottom and certainly wouldn't have expected or anticipated that there was a gate or wall across one of these runs. While I wouldn't put any blame on Winsport for this, I also have a hard time condemning these kids for what happened.

I think there's a term for it, its pretty natural, almost a self defence mechanism, when faced with news of a death to blame the victims for what happened.

Key term was 'life threateningly". There's a big difference between 'skateboarded' and 'broke into COP and took a toboggan down a bobsled track'. This isn't a whole lot different than buddy that got mauled by the tiger a few years back. There's a point you just know better.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by T@T

As noted people have snuck in and went down that track before and I'm sure COP would have heard of it, under proper use it's fine but how about even a sign at the top warning improper users that the track has a potentially fatal gate half way down. or even a safety net before the gate.

I guess the question then becomes what is Winsport (and bobsled/luge places in general) required to do to prevent people from using their stuff unauthorized. Folks I've been talking to/reading stuff from say that a 4 man bobsled on that track at that point is doing 96kph. Even if a toboggan full of teens is doing less, and they hit a "safety net" at say...50 kph, what kind of damage is the safety net going to do to them that the switchgate (which I've heard is very heavy, taking multiple people and a pulley system to move) won't?

The main thing that gets me is, when used PROPERLY, all the safety procedures and everything work right so there is no issue.

So I suppose, at night, they could put a "track set to X configuration" sign in/on the track that is effected. So maybe like a sign (in this case) on the bobsled track stating that the track is set to luge configuration.

But the main thing is that anyone using the track legally and properly would KNOW that...so you'd be doing it for the sole purpose that you expect someone to break in and use the track illegally. To what ends is a business required to go to ensure the safety and well being of illegal users?

[Buster]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Key term was 'life threateningly". There's a big difference between 'skateboarded' and 'broke into COP and took a toboggan down a bobsled track'. This isn't a whole lot different than buddy that got mauled by the tiger a few years back. There's a point you just know better.

My kids are a bit young to understand. But if/when they do ask about it, my characterization of the kids doing this won't be generous.

I want my kids to think these kids were being stupid and such activities are worth disparaging. I definitely don't want my kids to think this has something to do with bad luck or worse someone else's responsibility.

[FireGilbert]

Wow, this is a really sad and disturbing. I will never look at the COP bobsled track the same way again.

One thing I don't understand though is the constant media reporting that is tragic because they were good straight A students. Two people died, it would be equally as tragic if they were complete losers who had dropped out of high school.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Key term was 'life threateningly". There's a big difference between 'skateboarded' and 'broke into COP and took a toboggan down a bobsled track'. This isn't a whole lot different than buddy that got mauled by the tiger a few years back. There's a point you just know better.

The difference being you, I and everyone else know Tigers eat things like people.

How many people here can honestly say that before this accident they knew there was a gate separating the luge and the bobsled track that you'd run into if you took the wrong track?

If you'd have asked me what I think would have happened if they did this I would have thought they'd have just spilled out of the toboggan and ended up sliding down the track until they came to a stop. I never would have thought they'd have slid into a wall at high speed.

Were they out causing mischief? obviously, but did they make any choices that any of us would have thought could have been life threatening before this accident? No.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I guess the question then becomes what is Winsport (and bobsled/luge places in general) required to do to prevent people from using their stuff unauthorized.

I remember a story years ago where a farmer put barbed wire across a fence opening to stop snowmobiler's from entering his land, a man died and his wife on the back seriously injured because for 2 years they took that route with obviously no problems. I'm not sure what ever happened but because the farmer didn't put up a warning sign people wanted him charged with manslaughter.

I'm not saying this is all on Winsport as they did have security guards(blind ones?) but after reading some comments online about how common this was I'm shocked this was the first time we had a tragedy.

Sliding down the bobsled track after-hours on 'dumb things' was a 'tradition' for staff at Canada Olympic Park, according to several people on social media who say they used to work there.

"When I worked there many moons ago it was tradition that people went down the track on dumb things," wrote Kendra Coates on Facebook."

"This isn't the first time people have snuck onto this track at night. I used to work at COP, and a group of Aussie / Kiwi staff snuck on years ago. They ended up in the hospital too, but with much less serious injuries."

"This used to be a thing with COP staff after hours. Get a couple beers in ya, you start to do some dumb things.
However we did it on a flipped over park bench."

I'm no lawyer but I suspect a lawsuit because of that gate and no warnings it was there. (I'm assuming there wasn't a sign)

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Dan02

The difference being you, I and everyone else know Tigers eat things like people.

How many people here can honestly say that before this accident they knew there was a gate separating the luge and the bobsled track that you'd run into if you took the wrong track?

If you'd have asked me what I think would have happened if they did this I would have thought they'd have just spilled out of the toboggan and ended up sliding down the track until they came to a stop. I never would have thought they'd have slid into a wall at high speed.

Were they out causing mischief? obviously, but did they make any choices that any of us would have thought could have been life threatening before this accident? No.

I had no knowledge of the gate prior to reading this thread, but I clearly remember the Georgian luger who died during the Vancouver Olympics. If an experienced athlete -- wearing proper safety equipment, during the daytime, with emergency medical personnel on standby -- can be fatally injured on one of these tracks, even as a dumbass teenager I most definitely would have realized it's a potentially life-threatening activity to attempt this stunt.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm not saying this is all on Winsport as they did have security guards(blind ones?) but after reading some comments online about how common this was I'm shocked this was the first time we had a tragedy.

I'm no lawyer but I suspect a lawsuit because of that gate and no warnings it was there. (I'm assuming there wasn't a sign)

Thing is, media is reporting that people on "social media" (and almost every quote I've seen taken from social media is one I saw on the r/Calgary thread originally...) are saying it's common. I wonder how common it actually is. Saying something on social media is a far cry from something actually researched and looked in to.

IANAL as well, but I can't possibly see a lawsuit against Winsport going anywhere for this. It's not like there are no safety procedures for the gate and Winsport has a devil-may-care, use the track at your own risk attitude about the gate. It's just that for the safety procedures in place to work, the business needs to be operational and staffed.

You want a sign about the gate? How about the "No Trespassing" ones on the fence you have to climb over to get at it?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Thing is, media is reporting that people on "social media" (and almost every quote I've seen taken from social media is one I saw on the r/Calgary thread originally...) are saying it's common. I wonder how common it actually is. Saying something on social media is a far cry from something actually researched and looked in to.

IANAL as well, but I can't possibly see a lawsuit against Winsport going anywhere for this. It's not like there are no safety procedures for the gate and Winsport has a devil-may-care, use the track at your own risk attitude about the gate. It's just that for the safety procedures in place to work, the business needs to be operational and staffed.

You want a sign about the gate? How about the "No Trespassing" ones on the fence you have to climb over to get at it?

Yeah, there isn't really much more they should be required to do. If I were to guess their reactionary move will be to have additional night security brought in with at least one guard dedicated to watching the entrances to the luges. And imo, that's enough.

[calgarybornnraised]

If they worked there, you would think they knew to check the track first.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Thing is, media is reporting that people on "social media" (and almost every quote I've seen taken from social media is one I saw on the r/Calgary thread originally...) are saying it's common. I wonder how common it actually is. Saying something on social media is a far cry from something actually researched and looked in to.

IANAL as well, but I can't possibly see a lawsuit against Winsport going anywhere for this. It's not like there are no safety procedures for the gate and Winsport has a devil-may-care, use the track at your own risk attitude about the gate. It's just that for the safety procedures in place to work, the business needs to be operational and staffed.

You want a sign about the gate? How about the "No Trespassing or Death could Occur" ones on the fence you have to climb over to get at it?

If infact people went to the hospital in the past there could be a record of it.

Oh, I fixed your sign.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by T@T

If infact people went to the hospital in the past there could be a record of it.

Oh, I fixed your sign.

Why would people go to the hospital and say they were illegally going down the track? I doubt any called an ambulance to COP, or management would have been aware of it.