Jian Ghomeshi no longer with CBC

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

So much of this comes down to judging how people who are abused are supposed to act.

Logically it makes sense that people would just stay away, but in reality it can be different. And I don't think its wildly out of the question for these people - years after the fact - to feel shame for trying to get back with him and want to hide that fact.

I think this is a huge part of the case. Everyone has this idea of how an ideal person would act (and often project that on to themselves). They think, "well, if someone abused me, I sure would never ever try to contact them afterwards". However, human nature and actions often are not logical when viewed after the fact.

I know there are things that I've done, that if someone was really grilling me about it, some of my answers would have to be "I don't really know why I did that". It's sad that every details of these people's lives are being dissected the way they are. No one is perfect, but for some reason we project a perfect image on to ourselves and expect everyone to be perfect too.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by troutman

Introducing that email tends to confirm that the violence happened, leaving JG only the defence of consent.

Yes. But DeCoutere's email suggests that she was at least open to the notion of striking as part of consensual sex. In the eyes of the court, it could very well give credence to Ghomeshi's claims that it was consensual.

Getting to know you is literally changing my ming - in a good way I think. You challenge me and point to stuff that has not been pulled out in a very long time. I can tell you about all that sometime and everything about our friendship so far will make sense.

You kicked my ass last night and that makes me want to f--k your brains out. Tonight.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by troutman

Introducing that email tends to confirm that the violence happened, leaving JG only the defence of consent.

I expect a lot of this would help at sentencing too. It opens up the door to argue things like "Well, maybe he did choke Lucy without her consent at the time, but she clearly was not all that put off by it if she was seeking to eff his brains out the next day." This could be enough to keep him out of jail even if he is convicted.

[afc wimbledon]

If the victims consented to sex but not the slapping then why isn't this a simple assault?

The case is a mess at this point

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The case is a mess at this point

The more that comes out the more inept the prosecution looks. They've done such a disservice to every woman who Jian Ghomeshi has come across that I find myself actually questioning if these first two were actually "assaulted" without consent. Do you think any more will actually step forward after this farce?

If Jian walks completely, Michael Callaghan needs to fall on his sword for this. He needs to just come out and say that this was him being awful at his job and that his inability to do it should not deter women from stepping forward. Hopefully any that come after him will not be so totally and utterly clueless as to how to run a trial from the side of the prosecution.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The more that comes out the more inept the prosecution looks. They've done such a disservice to every woman who Jian Ghomeshi has come across that I find myself actually questioning if these first two were actually "assaulted" without consent. Do you think any more will actually step forward after this farce?

If Jian walks completely, Michael Callaghan needs to fall on his sword for this. He needs to just come out and say that this was him being awful at his job and that his inability to do it should not deter women from stepping forward. Hopefully any that come after him will not be so totally and utterly clueless as to how to run a trial from the side of the prosecution.

Yeah, total disaster thus far. The public backlash will be huge if he walks.

As a person, I am completely sympathetic to the view that women who claim that they were sexually assaulted should be given the benefit of the doubt. This trial, and this defense, has totally made me revise any belief I had that Lucy DeCoutere was telling the truth.

At worst, she looks like a vengeful liar. At best, someone who went through an assault, and is possibly more damaged from it then she knew - that rests completely on the police and prosecution.

Either way it is awful.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The more that comes out the more inept the prosecution looks. They've done such a disservice to every woman who Jian Ghomeshi has come across that I find myself actually questioning if these first two were actually "assaulted" without consent. Do you think any more will actually step forward after this farce?

If Jian walks completely, Michael Callaghan needs to fall on his sword for this. He needs to just come out and say that this was him being awful at his job and that his inability to do it should not deter women from stepping forward. Hopefully any that come after him will not be so totally and utterly clueless as to how to run a trial from the side of the prosecution.

These emails and everything are coming from some website server of Ghomesi's (and letters). If the people don't tell him... how is he supposed to know? I know for me personally - I couldn't pull up or remember emails I sent 12 years ago.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

These emails and everything are coming from some website server of Ghomesi's (and letters). If the people don't tell him... how is he supposed to know? I know for me personally - I couldn't pull up or remember emails I sent 12 years ago.

So it may speak to a deeper issue that Ghomeshi knew what he was doing, and created himself a shield from the get-go, which is actually really disturbing.

[woob]

Maybe Jian used to be an IT guy at some point and he keeps everything like lots of IT people do?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by peter12

So it may speak to a deeper issue that Ghomeshi knew what he was doing, and created himself a shield from the get-go, which is actually really disturbing.

Yes, many are tweeting about that. Looks like he carefully selected and groomed his relationships with a consent defence in mind.

If he is acquitted, I still think he is ruined. I don't see how he can live and work in Toronto (or Canada) after this.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

These emails and everything are coming from some website server of Ghomesi's (and letters). If the people don't tell him... how is he supposed to know? I know for me personally - I couldn't pull up or remember emails I sent 12 years ago.

Part of the investigation's job is to be skeptical of the victim at first. You can't go in taking everything at face value until you've looked into and investigated. It's how you avoid wrongful prosecution and just flat wasting time. My charge is that they didn't do this.

Truthfully, I think they thought they saw a juicy fat, slow pig and figured it'd be easy pickin's and approached it as such. Now they're paying the price for being so woefully unprepared.

[CliffFletcher]

I wonder how long it will take for it to sink in that everything we express digitally - every email, every facebook update, every forum post, every text - is real and permanent?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by peter12

So it may speak to a deeper issue that Ghomeshi knew what he was doing, and created himself a shield from the get-go, which is actually really disturbing.

Or his way of documenting consent, knowing full well that he should have this stuff if he wants to participate in that type of behaviour.

Some people like this sort of thing, I'm not one of them, but it seems to me that if you are, keeping backup of what happens is very smart.

If I was on a jury for this case (although there isn't one), these first few days would definitely put reasonable doubt in my mind. This is a really tough case it seems, and tougher than the Crown obviously thought it would be.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Or his way of documenting consent, knowing full well that he should have this stuff if he wants to participate in that type of behaviour.

Some people like this sort of thing, I'm not one of them, but it seems to me that if you are, keeping backup of what happens is very smart.

If I was on a jury for this case (although there isn't one), these first few days would definitely put reasonable doubt in my mind. This is a really tough case it seems, and tougher than the Crown obviously thought it would be.

There is too much of a messy wake to think that he engaged in consensual BDSM multiple times with "jilted-ex's." For goodness sake, there are structured communities if you are really into this kind of thing.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Part of the investigation's job is to be skeptical of the victim at first. You can't go in taking everything at face value until you've looked into and investigated. It's how you avoid wrongful prosecution and just flat wasting time. My charge is that they didn't do this.

Truthfully, I think they thought they saw a juicy fat, slow pig and figured it'd be easy pickin's and approached it as such. Now they're paying the price for being so woefully unprepared.

I suspect they saw a bit of fame coming there way, Canada's own mini OJ

[Coach]

Originally Posted by peter12

There is too much of a messy wake to think that he engaged in consensual BDSM multiple times with "jilted-ex's." For goodness sake, there are structured communities if you are really into this kind of thing.

Yeah, I dunno. It's really difficult to make any presumptions about that type of lifestyle without participating in it. I would assume getting prior consent is a big part of it, but who knows. It definitely should be, and will probably be more of a focus in that community after something like this.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I suspect they saw a bit of fame coming there way, Canada's own mini OJ

See, everything I have read about the Crown would suggest that this is not the case. Callaghan is known as a steady, quiet, and fair prosecutor. It is really surprising to see things go this way.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by peter12

There is too much of a messy wake to think that he engaged in consensual BDSM multiple times with "jilted-ex's." For goodness sake, there are structured communities if you are really into this kind of thing.

At this point I am assuming Ghomishi's an unpleasant prick whose into rough sex and the first two went along with it because of his stature at CBC, I'd guess neither of them really liked him that much, I think they persuaded themselves it wasn't consensual afterwards when the poop hit the fan.
In a sense they are right, they didn't really want to have sex with him but it would be damaging to their career to reject him.
That said I suspect he thought it was consensual.

[troutman]

Didn't LD say what happened was during one of their first dates? First time in his apartment?

How could he think he had consent to choke and punch her then?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by troutman

Didn't LD say what happened was during one of their first dates? First time in his apartment?

How could he think he had consent to choke and punch her then?

I've never had consent to have sex in my life, consent has always been a series of groping and kissing moves where I didn't get told to eff off, or slapped or just given some lame excuse.
I would assume S&M is mostly the same.