2015/2016 Barclays Premier League Thread

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

he won with a stacked team, that is the point everyone else is making, he can win with a stacked team.

I AM NOT denying the team was stacked. My problem is you make it sound as if anyone can win as long as they have the players? Plenty of stacked teams fail miserably.

So the question is ... is it that simple to you? Stack a team and the manager is meaningless. Is that your point? He didn't have to do anything?

My point is this. Having a stacked team is often not enough. There needs to be some form of managerial skill too.

Guardiola can't win with some people. Oooooh, he took the city job because that's the easiest yet apart from Matt no-one has attempted to elaborate on why that is the case given that any of them can bring in personnel next year.

If he succeeds at city it'll be dismissed as being down to $ and being able to attract top players (which sort of says something in itself) and having a "stacked team". Nothing new to see here.
If he fails it'll be, see we told you so.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I don't think this can be argued, Pep has never coached a team in any league where he didn't have a gap in talent to 2nd place

That's a huge statement given that he has coached in all of 2 leagues one of which I agree is a one team league.

Regarding La Liga. Yes. Because Madrid and Ronaldo were just a bunch of hackers. Seriously?

Your statements are based on nothing more than hindsight and the thought process of They won titles easily therefore by default the problem was the rest of the league wasn't up to much. Anything BUT give him credit.

Anyways. I have zero desire to go back and forth. Obviously you feel it is as simple as having personnel to win titles. I put just as much if not more value in the role of the manager.

[d_phaneuf]

Madrid aren't a bunch of hacks, they were arguably the 2nd best team in the world while Pep was there

but I don't think you would find people say they had more talent than Barca

managing does take a part, you're making it seem that it has to be one or the other, again no one is saying he's a bad manager, he has proven he can win with the best team (which not everyone can do), he hasn't and doesnt seem to want to prove he can win with anything but, that's all people are saying

The only reason they are is because most of the media treat him like he invented possession based football

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

Checks the calendar. Checks the table.

Yup, it's February and Arsenal are fighting for 4th place. Seems about status quo.

It seemed a really weird set up how they attacked southampton today, basically no threat in the middle of the park

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Guardiola can't win with some people. Oooooh, he took the city job because that's the easiest yet apart from Matt no-one has attempted to elaborate on why that is the case given that any of them can bring in personnel next year.

If he succeeds at city it'll be dismissed as being down to $ and being able to attract top players (which sort of says something in itself) and having a "stacked team". Nothing new to see here.
If he fails it'll be, see we told you so.

I actually think if he can consistently win league titles and then win a Champions League while he is at City then he will deserve a lot of the hype that he gets.

That team is much more of a work in progress then both Barca & Bayern. It's an easier fix then United would have been, and likely less pressure then Chelsea, but that team is still pretty flawed - especially at the Champions League stage.

City has lots of good pieces but there is no real "core" at City, unlike what he had at Barca & Munich. He will truly be building a team there . He will have the money to do it, but it will be interesting to see how he spends it.

Nobody is arguing that the guy good manager, I just don't quite buy the greatest manager ever hype that he seems to get from the media.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

It seemed a really weird set up how they attacked southampton today, basically no threat in the middle of the park

A couple of the Bloggers that I rate have both voiced the opinion that the Flamini-Ramsey partnership simply isn't working. The return of our Coq should help but his partnership with Cazorla is something special.

[Locke]

Okay, Bagor thinks Pep is the greatest manager ever, everyone else does not.

Moving right along.

The hope that I have is that we can get CB settled and that hopefully Klopp can land a top-class striker this summer.

Watching that game yesterday the midfield seems like its working but we cant buy a goal and our CBs are a hot mess.

Its stunning, its like being a minor soccer coach all over again.

"Hey, great, you can control the game but you cant score any goals and you're conceding too many."

Not a recipe for success.

[Slava]

^ I was pulling for you guys yesterday. I mean you're too far out of it to matter, most likely, and I actually don't want to see Leicester win it all. Aside from my blind fan-dom I wonder if a team playing that style is actually good for the game. Do we really want to watch a bunch of teams play that "anti-football"? Success breeds copycats afterall.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ I was pulling for you guys yesterday. I mean you're too far out of it to matter, most likely, and I actually don't want to see Leicester win it all. Aside from my blind fan-dom I wonder if a team playing that style is actually good for the game. Do we really want to watch a bunch of teams play that "anti-football"? Success breeds copycats afterall.

I kind of do want Leicester to win it all. I dont think they will, I imagine that at some point City have to get their #### together.

I honestly thought this whole season was gift-wrapped for either Chelsea or City but after Chelsea crapped the bed out of the gate every keeps constantly dropping the ball.

As for copy-cats and anti-football, its touchy. You can say that of Leicester but in fairness they do it when it works, when they go at teams that are more on their level they're a fun team to watch.

When teams dont do it well it'll bite them in the ass, but most teams do that, play a negative game to get a result against a strong team and then setup differently for teams that are more on an even level.

[Locke]

And of course my jerk of a United fan client was at that game and has been mocking me relentlessly via text message.

Jerkface.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ I was pulling for you guys yesterday. I mean you're too far out of it to matter, most likely, and I actually don't want to see Leicester win it all. Aside from my blind fan-dom I wonder if a team playing that style is actually good for the game. Do we really want to watch a bunch of teams play that "anti-football"? Success breeds copycats afterall.

Chelsea won a title parking the bus, didn't really breed a lot of copycats. Besides what Leicester are doing is great motivation to all the teams toiling between 8th and 17th that they too can make a run...except they all don't have a duo as dynamic as Mahrez/Vardy, like Leicester. Leicester also has a bunch of comeback wins too, so they aren't really a team to take a 1-0 lead and sit 10 behind the ball.

[cam_wmh]

But they have the worst possession in the prem.

I prefer possession vs kick & chase. The kick & chase model looks pretty sexy when that first ball is precision, and you have two quick lethal strikers as they have now.

It's not a long term model, and I believe they're going to be found out as they visit the big clubs.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

But they have the worst possession in the prem.

I prefer possession vs kick & chase. The kick & chase model looks pretty sexy when that first ball is precision, and you have two quick lethal strikers as they have now.

It's not a long term model, and I believe they're going to be found out as they visit the big clubs.

How's all that possession worked out for United? Best game they might have played all year was yesterday, when Stoke actually had more possession. I do tend to agree a possession based model is more sustainable long term, but both systems can only work with the right personnel. Ranieri deserves credit for working with what he has rather than trying to force something to work.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Chelsea won a title parking the bus, didn't really breed a lot of copycats. Besides what Leicester are doing is great motivation to all the teams toiling between 8th and 17th that they too can make a run...except they all don't have a duo as dynamic as Mahrez/Vardy, like Leicester. Leicester also has a bunch of comeback wins too, so they aren't really a team to take a 1-0 lead and sit 10 behind the ball.

No, its not a question of whether it works. I think it does all too often. Its a question of whether its enjoyable for fans to watch. And they do sit 10 behind the ball, as we saw that in the Spurs game a few weeks ago. Granted they got a late goal so it wasn't 65 minutes of that, but its not entertaining in general.

And as far as "inspiring" teams in some ways that is what I'm afraid of. Watching WBA earlier this year they played the same game, just a poorer rendition and it was terrible to watch. They basically turtle and do nothing and hope that the long outlet is going to generate goals to hang on for a terrible 1-0 win.

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

But they have the worst possession in the prem.

I prefer possession vs kick & chase. The kick & chase model looks pretty sexy when that first ball is precision, and you have two quick lethal strikers as they have now.

It's not a long term model, and I believe they're going to be found out as they visit the big clubs.

Well its hard to argue with the day after that Vardy strike. But the fact is that was a great goal and just by chance the ball sat right up perfectly for him. I'm not saying it was a fluke because they seem to get this working every week this season, but really 95 times out of 100 that ball winds up in the stands.

It will be interesting to see if they've been found out or not here, but I tend to agree. Although I thought that Tottenham could deal with them adequately and in the three games there was a disputed draw and then a win a piece, so what do I know!

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Slava

No, its not a question of whether it works. I think it does all too often. Its a question of whether its enjoyable for fans to watch. And they do sit 10 behind the ball, as we saw that in the Spurs game a few weeks ago. Granted they got a late goal so it wasn't 65 minutes of that, but its not entertaining in general.

And as far as "inspiring" teams in some ways that is what I'm afraid of. Watching WBA earlier this year they played the same game, just a poorer rendition and it was terrible to watch. They basically turtle and do nothing and hope that the long outlet is going to generate goals to hang on for a terrible 1-0 win!

Whose fans though? I think Leicester fans would tell you they're having a great time this season watching. I doubt they give the slightest crap if other fans don't like it, because the results speak for themselves. Not every team can be a counter attacking team though, Leicester have the personnel to do it. Just like not every team can be possession based without having the right players to make it work.

The inspiration is more about how a team without the depth or resources of the top boys is still making noise. But those mid-table teams who dare to dream still need to find their Mahrez and Vardy to make it a possibility, so it's inspiring to show them it can be done and is possible, but it's difficult to replicate without the right personnel.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Whose fans though? I think Leicester fans would tell you they're having a great time this season watching. I doubt they give the slightest crap if other fans don't like it, because the results speak for themselves. Not every team can be a counter attacking team though, Leicester have the personnel to do it. Just like not every team can be possession based without having the right players to make it work.

The inspiration is more about how a team without the depth or resources of the top boys is still making noise. But those mid-table teams who dare to dream still need to find their Mahrez and Vardy to make it a possibility, so it's inspiring to show them it can be done and is possible, but it's difficult to replicate without the right personnel.

I think it's attractive due to Leicester being in the honeymoon stage of success.

Is there a successful club out there, with the philosophy around the lack of possession and a counter-attack?

Perhaps Chelsea with Mourinho? We know how that turned out though.

Which comes back to what I mentioned originally. It's not a philosophy for long term success.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Locke

And of course my jerk of a United fan client was at that game and has been mocking me relentlessly via text message.

Jerkface.

Secretly misfile and hide his income over a several year period. Then report him to CRA and try to get him sent to prison.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I think it's attractive due to Leicester being in the honeymoon stage of success.

Is there a successful club out there, with the philosophy around the lack of possession and a counter-attack?

Perhaps Chelsea with Mourinho? We know how that turned out though.

Which comes back to what I mentioned originally. It's not a philosophy for long term success.

Yeah but when Chelsea did it, it was...at Chelsea, with a loaded roster and a ridiculously rich owner. I definitely agree it's not the long term recipe, but Leicester of course has had one (extremely) successful year, which came after they were fighting for relegation last year.

So we'll see if they try and build something long term, I think using this approach as a springboard to something better long term is fine. Right now this is the best approach for the roster they have, if they go out and spend to improve the roster, ideally they play more attacking.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

Secretly misfile and hide his income over a several year period. Then report him to CRA and try to get him sent to prison.

Its all about the long-game.

Also I think my rates went up for all Manchester United fans.

I have a Liverpool scarf and a 'This is Anfield' sign in my office so if anyone gives me grief I ask about their allegiances and then my prices mysteriously increase...

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, Bagor thinks Pep is the greatest manager ever, everyone else does not.

Moving right along.

I ask this in all sincerity. A bit challenged? Just can't keep up with what is being debated? Or are you simply a troll?

We can move right along once you point out where I said he was the greatest manager ever. Can you do that?