Jian Ghomeshi no longer with CBC

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If you read the link Troutman provided,
http://www.macleans.ca/society/whats...ghomeshi-case/
Everything below the last picture discusses ideas.

Oh okay, let's have a look.

Butt and others are advocating for specialized sexual assault courts like those that exist for criminal cases involving drugs and mental health; these will entail a subset of judges with special training in the psychological dynamics of sexual assault and lawyers for complainants.

Well, this seems like a good idea in theory, but presents huge practical and administrative problems. The court system is already overtaxed. But I guess if you could find a way to make it work... it just seems really unrealistic. There is also a problem that this could develop as a sort of parallel justice system, which is no justice system at all. Preventing that would place an even bigger administrative burden on the endeavour.

So, next?

Complainants’ access to lawyers, destined to be controversial, could even out a lopsided playing field. As it stands, accusers appear as witnesses in the people’s case against the alleged perpetrators; they’re not given counsel of their own.

I see no problem with this idea. Seems like a good one and I can't really imagine how it would prejudice anyone and it would certainly help with the witness not feeling like they're on a limb by themselves. I'm on board.

What else have you got?

Butt would also like to see the burden of proof lowered from “beyond a reasonable doubt” to a balance of probability, as well as reduced penalties. “The bar is so high,” he says, “that even if the defendant is remotely believable, the law says a conviction won’t happen.”

#### you.

Seriously, #### right off. This should never, ever in a million years happen.

[Fuzz]

On the surface, it kinda makes sense becuase you are taking one person's word against another. After examining evidence, they law would basically pick a side. In reality its a very bad idea. In this case it would almost certainly find Jian guilty.

[troutman]

See also, Whack No More: Infusing Equality Into the Ethics of Defence Lawyering in Sexual Assault Cases

https://www.uwindsor.ca/law/tanovich...hacknomore.pdf

The article begins by exploring how sexual assault is different from other offences in terms of how it is processed, conceived of, and defended by lawyers. It is argued that this difference requires a rethinking of ethical lawyering in this context. The next part attempts to set out a normative framework that is largely grounded in legal and ethical norms including equality values, the lawyer’s duty to not discriminate, as well as an advocate’s obligation to act in “good faith” and not mislead the court. The article turns to applying this framework by setting out what defence tactics should be ethically barred, particularly when you know your client is guilty. The critical question of when you know your client is guilty is also addressed. The final part uses three leading Supreme Court of Canada evidence cases (R v Khan; R v Osolin; R v Parrott) to examine how the proposed ethical limits might have impacted the conduct of the defence.

From 2014, CBC Town Hall -
Fixing a broken system: Sexual assault and the law

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundayedi...-law-1.2905285

Can we re-imagine a world where women who have been assaulted feel comfortable coming forward to report what happened to them, and where they are believed and treated with respect?

If we were to create a system where sexual assault complainants saw justice being served more often, what would that look like? And in making changes, how do we continue to protect the rights of the accused?

To explore these many questions we brought together a panel of legal experts:

[Buster]

You absolutely can't change the burden or proof, the presumption of innocence, or the ability ot vigorously defend yourself. These are foundational concepts for a modern democracy.

If that means that justice is not served in some instances, then we have to chalk that up to an imperfect world. That goes for all criminal justice, and rape/sexual assault cannot be exceptions.

[schooner]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If we want to make it easier for victims of sexual assaults to come forward, what specific changes do we need to make to our legal system? It's one thing to point out how difficult it is now. But if we're going to change that, we need feasible alternatives that fit into the framework of our legal system.

In my opinion there should be a publication ban for these types of cases. I would guess that most victims who don't come forward make that decision for fear of public scrutiny. Similarly the accused faces defamation regardless of guilt or innocence.

If there was no publication, until at least the point of a verdict being reached, I believe it would provide a safer environment for the victims to come forward and protection of reputation if the alleged is determined innocent.

[bluejays]

Damn, can we open a new thread about the Ghomeshi trial? This one seems to have been taken over by Roosh V tirades and veiled feminism conspiracy.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

People do question the victims of muggings. That would be the lawyer for the person arrested/on trial for the mugging. Even the police I'm sure ask simple questions to establish the story when the victim initially reports a mugging.

As for the norm being disbelieving the complainant, who is the author talking about? The public? The police?

Police, prosecutors. I am not as well researched as others on the topic but I have read Jon Krakauers Missoula and it talks a lot about this problem. Many people in the justice system believe that rape allegations are mostly false (which is not true) so the investigations were very poorly done. It was a very tough and frustrating read, but it was interesting.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by fleury

veiled feminism conspiracy

What would that be?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

We can't just keep harping on the same topic for 44 pages, conversations evolve and branch onto related topics. Nothing wrong with that. Quite honestly I think the past couple pages of tangentially related discussion have been the most interesting in the whole thread, but that's just me.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Police, prosecutors. I am not as well researched as others on the topic but I have read Jon Krakauers Missoula and it talks a lot about this problem. Many people in the justice system believe that rape allegations are mostly false (which is not true) so the investigations were very poorly done. It was a very tough and frustrating read, but it was interesting.

I like Krakauer - or at least some of his work. So it pains me to say that "Missoula" is mostly based on very dubious claims.

Reason.com did an excellent analysis of the topic here:

http://reason.com/archives/2015/07/2...-lisak-problem

Generally speaking, the most commonly cited sexual assault statistics are highly inflated.

[troutman]

You can't talk about this trial without the context of the culture surrounding it. One thread is fine.

[saillias]

Shocker. The poster cluttering up the thread with WOTs thinks his posts are the best content. But for people who don't, they can either put you on ignore or sift through the mega-thread to find actual updates.

Because you know, the case is happening right now. You wouldn't even be able to tell unless you went back a few pages.

[troutman]

Actual update - trial adjourned to Thursday.

[CliffFletcher]

If it's all about getting updates on a trial of national prominence, there are far better options than a thread on Calgarypuck. This is a place for members of this forum to talk about stuff, not the Canadian Press wire service.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Buster

I like Krakauer - or at least some of his work. So it pains me to say that "Missoula" is mostly based on very dubious claims.

Reason.com did an excellent analysis of the topic here:

http://reason.com/archives/2015/07/2...-lisak-problem

Generally speaking, the most commonly cited sexual assault statistics are highly inflated.

Well the book isn't centered around that statistic so it's disingenuous to say the books is based on very dubious claims. It's largely about individual cases that occurred in the town and the justice system failed them and how it's failing other victims.

[Kjesse]

The Crown having a problem scheduling their second witness? That is proof positive this aspect of their case is in trouble. Expectations were the next witness would be the one backing up the testimony of the first witness, a friend to whom the first witness confided in. Something is going on and its not mere scheduling problems.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Delgar

The Crown having a problem scheduling their second witness? That is proof positive this aspect of their case is in trouble. Expectations were the next witness would be the one backing up the testimony of the first witness, a friend to whom the first witness confided in. Something is going on and its not mere scheduling problems.

I have not heard about scheduling problems with a second witness. Not unusual to have adjournments in a large trial.

One of the accusers is Lucy DeCoutere, an experienced actress and performer. The defence might find her to be more unshakeable.

http://www.macleans.ca/society/life/...ghomeshi-case/

While she says she has felt an uncharacteristic amount of anxiety since she went public with her experience, the thought of taking the stand does not faze her — or at least she’s determined not to let it. “In the end, the whole thing boils down to me having a conversation with [Ghomeshi’s lawyer] Marie Henein about something that happened 12 years ago,” says DeCoutere. “I refuse to be intimidated by a process that is designed to get the truth about something. I cannot entertain that it’s more complicated than that. And the fact that people really build it up to be more is why more women are unable to share their experiences about violence.”

[Ducay]

Sounds like Jian is getting his money's worth with that good female lawyer.

Second witness perhaps spooked by potential perjury now the defense is throwing all kinds of wrenches into the complainant's stories.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Sounds like Jian is getting his money's worth with that good female lawyer.

Second witness perhaps spooked by potential perjury now the defense is throwing all kinds of wrenches into the complainant's stories.

If it wasn't for the sheer number of complaints that popped up, I'd actually believe that this was a case of agreed upon sexual contact that a couple people just regretted.

She's doing an amazing job at changing the narrative of this case..

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm assuming that the prosecution is probably saving their best witnesses for last.

Right now, I would think that they're trying to establish a pattern of behavior.