2016 NHL Draft

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hossa would be amazing. IMO the most underrated reason the Blackhawks have become a dynasty, is how much better Hossa secretly makes Toews.

I don't know if that's a good comparison. But I can see a similar role.

Put it this way, watching Barkov in Finland, it was clear that he's very intelligent and an incredibly strong 2-way player. You could debate his probable offense in the NHL (60 points? 70? 80?) but his strengths were obvious and undeniable. Combine that with his size and you easily have a number one center. Money in the bank.

Watching Laine, he's obviously a goal scorer. He can just stand there and shoot pucks past goalies.

Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but with Puljujärvi, it's way harder to be sure for some reason. Size, hard work, speed, certainly, but if we're thinking he's a first line forward, can we name the thing that what will make him succeed? He's a passer but without the obvious skill of a natural playmaker. He has a good shot in theory but not a goal scorer in practice. What I can say is that he's someone who will win a lot of puck battles for his linemates, he sees his linemates and he's a good enough passer to get pucks to them, he'll drive up the speed through the neutral zone and he'll be equally fast on the back check.

[druetetective]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but with Puljujärvi, it's way harder to be sure for some reason. Size, hard work, speed, certainly, but if we're thinking he's a first line forward, can we name the thing that what will make him succeed? He's a passer but without the obvious skill of a natural playmaker. He has a good shot in theory but not a goal scorer in practice. What I can say is that he's someone who will win a lot of puck battles for his linemates, he sees his linemates and he's a good enough passer to get pucks to them, he'll drive up the speed through the neutral zone and he'll be equally fast on the back check.

That's why I think he'll be a comparable player to Monahan

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I can't say that because Gaudreau is so damn good. We'll see. I'll be happy if he is. The size argument is silly though. You have elite talent and you can be a hell of a player. Is Max Domi going to be better because he's the same height but a little more doughy?
The Leafs drafted a massive guy in the first round a few years ago in Gauthier and I was very disappointed. He lacked skill.

agreed. Id always draft skill over size. What good is size if u cant use it? at best u might get a bottom 6 player but drafting skill could find u gems.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by druetetective

I'm surprised Matthew's is leading his league in goals and 2nd in PPG.

When's the last time a draft-eligible player did that in a men's league!

I heard the NLA really advanced in quality the last decade and was now considered the 4-5th strongest over there? Can anyone comment on this?

I have my impression of the Swiss league but it's probably uninformed. What I saw from Matthews at the U20 was a player who is not threatened by Puljujärvi and Laine: he's more intelligent, he's dangerous in more ways, he's more unpredictable. He'll be a terror if a rival team drafts him. He's as advertised and it's not surprising that he's successful in a top-heavy league with tons of space and time for skilled players.

[Caged Great]

Matthews is producing at the same rate as NHL star players in the last lockout. The difference is that he isn't drafted yet, while those stars were already stars at the time.

He's pretty much a lock to be one of the top 20 or so players in the league.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but with Puljujärvi, it's way harder to be sure for some reason. Size, hard work, speed, certainly, but if we're thinking he's a first line forward, can we name the thing that what will make him succeed? He's a passer but without the obvious skill of a natural playmaker. He has a good shot in theory but not a goal scorer in practice. What I can say is that he's someone who will win a lot of puck battles for his linemates, he sees his linemates and he's a good enough passer to get pucks to them, he'll drive up the speed through the neutral zone and he'll be equally fast on the back check.

I do know what you're describing and I think I agree - I haven't seen that last little bit of creativity and sense that seems to separate the Gaudreaus from the Cammalleris I guess you could call it. Like I think I said earlier in this thread though, I see him as being a rich man's Taylor Hall or Marian Gaborik offensively. Just a guy who drives everything going on so aggressively that the results are there but they're rarely "beautiful". Say what you will about Taylor Hall, but he's an 80 point forward every year playing such an unpretty game.

I guess I've got:

Puljujarvi's Floor: Rich Man's Frolik
Puljujarvi's Ceiling: Bigger, RW Taylor Hall + Defensive dominance.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Matthews is producing at the same rate as NHL star players in the last lockout. The difference is that he isn't drafted yet, while those stars were already stars at the time.

He's pretty much a lock to be one of the top 20 or so players in the league.

While I don't disagree with your conclusion, I'm just not a fan of focusing on stats. Believe me, most NHL stars don't bring their A-games when they're killing time in Europe during lockouts. Swiss league is dominated by Pierre-Marc Bouchard this season.

Looking very quickly at players with over .90 points per game in the Swiss league with more than half the games played, there's like 20 of them. In Finland, there's two.

[druetetective]

I think Caged Great meant NHL players that played in the NLA specifically, although your point still stands. Of course it isn't near KHL,Liiga or SHL but I thought it was on par with DEL/Extraliga etc.

But if the quality of player is what you suggest, maybe dominating that league isn't quite the feat I thought, despite him being 17.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by druetetective

I think Caged Great meant NHL players that played in the NLA specifically, although your point still stands. Of course it isn't near KHL,Liiga or SHL but I thought it was on par with DEL/Extraliga etc.

But if the quality of player is what you suggest, maybe dominating that league isn't quite the feat I thought, despite him being 17.

No my point is not that the Swiss league is worse than some other league, I honestly wouldn't know. Seems like there's more scoring going on there but that's all I can say. I just think that stat analysis reaches its limit very quickly in these cases. Minor point, perhaps not even worth making.

But isn't that the type of argument you sometimes hear about European prospects - "He's getting outplayed by the likes of Pierre-Marc Bouchard!" Just joking. Doesn't mean anything.

Bottom line is, he is that good. Maybe it is a feat. But comparisons fall apart quickly.

[druetetective]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

No my point is not that the Swiss league is worse than some other league, I honestly wouldn't know. Seems like there's more scoring going on there but that's all I can say. I just think that stat analysis reaches its limit very quickly in these cases. Minor point, perhaps not even worth making.

But isn't that the type of argument you sometimes hear about European prospects - "He's getting outplayed by the likes of Pierre-Marc Bouchard!" Just joking. Doesn't mean anything.

Bottom line is, he is that good. Maybe it is a feat. But comparisons fall apart quickly.

Yes I've heard that one before.
I think it's foolish to compare 17 year olds to veterans. Hence why I never brought up Laine/Puljujarvi statistics in relation to the league leaders.

I think comparing them to Mikko Rantanen/Barkov/Granlunds pre-draft numbers holds value though.

You were correct I was putting to much stock into statistics.

I'll hold by my belief that WJC is a very small sample size. Things like linemates, chemistry,coaching,goaltending,hot/cold streaks and luck are all large factors.

[Caged Great]

Stats are a funny thing. They both matter a lot and they don't matter at all.

The Finns at the WJC has a great tournament. All that indicates is that they were able to put on a show in a high pressure situation. Taking the gold on home ice for a Euro country is the most pressure they'll face this early in their development. That doesn't mean that they necessarily will be drafted in the top 3. However, it does give them a huge bump. If another player(s) goes on an unreal tear through the back half of the season and the playoffs, they could leapfrog them, which would be made easier if the duo was playing just okay in their mens league. That's how Nik Ehlers went from being rated in the 20's all the way up top being selected 9th.

There isn't enough information on everyone yet except Matthews. Considering it's still January, things like the WJC get overweighted in evaluations because that's the only big thing that's happened thus far. Won't get that info until April/May.

[GranteedEV]

What would people who've watched a lot of him, say about Matthews' defensive game? Will he anchor a team defensively like a Kopitar or is he more of a Malkin type all-offensive guy (though Malkin this year is having a fantastic year defensively)

[dammage79]

Haven't watched him but Marc Crawford raves about how his defensive game has come along. He said that's been their focus over there is to develop Matthews defensive game to a more NHL style and its worked out. Could just be the coach pumping his players tires but it sounds like it's good.

[The Original FFIV]

Gauthier currently on sportsnet for those that want to get an extra viewing and/or can't bring themselves to watch the asg

[druetetective]

I watched parts and Gauthier was very good. Had a goal and probably close to 5 shots in the 30-40 mins I watched. I was also very impressed with some Russian named Abramov. He was all over the ice oozes skill, He looked very small though on T.V and I have no idea where he is ranked just that he's draft eligible.

[Henry Fool]

Patrik Laine will play for the men's national team in the Euro Hockey Tour tournament in Sweden. Sebastian Aho from the U20 line will join him, Puljujärvi not invited.

[albertGQ]

Matthews is 18. And has been the entire season. Not 17.

[Lanny_McDonald]

My dream scenario for the draft.

Flames win the draft and the Coyotes get 2nd or 3rd pick. Flames trade down with Arizona for Christian Fischer, Ryan MacInnis and the Coyotes' pick, then selecting Puljujärvi or Laine. Flames then use the picks they accrue from the trade deadline to trade up to draft Gauthier. Walk away from the draft with two big RWs with scoring prowess and two big centers that can play both ways and have impressed.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by New Era

My dream scenario for the draft.

Flames win the draft and the Coyotes get 2nd or 3rd pick. Flames trade down with Arizona for Christian Fischer, Ryan MacInnis and the Coyotes' pick, then selecting Puljujärvi or Laine. Flames then use the picks they accrue from the trade deadline to trade up to draft Gauthier. Walk away from the draft with two big RWs with scoring prowess and two big centers that can play both ways and have impressed.

This shows how much value winning the lottery can bring in terms of pure assets.

It would be nearly impossible to remain no good after a lottery win, never-mind 2, or 4...

[Hackey]

Oiler's got some pretty crappy 1st overall picks though. RNH and Yakupov are probably the worst 1st overalls in a while and their drafts were pretty terrible.