FF80F prospect update

[JiriHrdina]

I think this is a big enough topic to fit on the main board.
Update from Flames from 80 Feet re-ranking the Flames prospects.

Some big moves up and down.
http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2016/...prospects.html

[GranteedEV]

Kylington is too low. Nice to see Jankowski back into the top 10, though I'd like to see him in the top 5. This was what I said when Haynes released his August rankings.

[Funkhouser]

missing agostino

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Interesting.

I would have Jankowski way higher. Like top 3 at this point. Kylington would be higher on my list as well.

1. Jankowksi
2. Gillies
3. Andersson
4. Kylington
5. Hickey
6. Poirier
7. McDonald
8. Klimchuk
9. Kulak
10. Grant

Is probably my top 10 atm. I'd find a way to squeeze Agostino in the top 20, we might see him post-trade deadline. I wouldn't have Mangiapane in the top 10 until he shows a lot at the pro level, small junior scorers often have problems adapting their game to the NHL. Some do but a lot don't. IMO his scoring is being overrated by some. Only the truly exceptional overcome size deficits and we don't know that he's that exceptional yet.

[GreenLantern]

Nice to see the top 3 as a combination of goaltending/defense. I also like the comment about Klimchuk working on all areas of his game. From what I remember of him in the WHL he doesn't need to score to be effective out there and those players are just as important, ie Lance "Thanks Lance" Bouwma.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

missing agostino

Honourable Mention - LW Kenny Agostino

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Interesting.

I would have Jankowski way higher. Like top 3 at this point. Kylington would be higher on my list as well.

1. Jankowksi
2. Gillies
3. Andersson
4. Kylington
5. Hickey
6. Poirier
7. McDonald
8. Klimchuk
9. Kulak
10. Grant

Is probably my top 10 atm. I'd find a way to squeeze Agostino in the top 20, we might see him post-trade deadline.

Not bad. My top 14, using Darren Haynes' criteria goes:

Jankowski
Kylington
Granlund
Hickey
McDonald
Gillies
Poirier
Kulak
Andersson
Klimchuk
Culkin
Grant
Ortio
Poulin

I still want to see Ortio make the NHL though and haven't written him off. If he strings together a strong February/March he'll be right back up there in my eyes.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Can't say I agree with a lot of his ranking, but always good to read a Haynes' article.

I am not sure where some of the moves are coming from. Gillies jumping to #1 from #5 is a bit surprising to me. Only a handful of games played, and a long-term injury. Now his injury doesn't necessarily mean he should drop in the rankings, but I just don't see the logic for him to jump up either.

I agree Kylington is being underrated on his list. Not easy for a kid from Sweden to come to North America and play pro at the age of 18. Sure he was playing against men in Sweden (and that is impressive too!), but feel he should probably be ranked higher based on his 2-way play so far this season.

Arnold below Karnaukhov doesn't seem right to me. Mangiapane ahead of Granlund doesn't seem right either.

Many of the 'fallers' make a lot of sense though - Culkin (thought he should probably be ranked even lower - losing a lot of development time, and though I don't watch the ECHL at all, 8 assists in 36 games doesn't seem very encouraging. Ortio was no big surprise (though there is still hope for him),

Still, it is interesting to see someone's take on who the top prospects are.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am not sure where some of the moves are coming from. Gillies jumping to #1 from #5 is a bit surprising to me. Only a handful of games played, and a long-term injury. Now his injury doesn't necessarily mean he should drop in the rankings, but I just don't see the logic for him to jump up either.

Agreed. I would also add that given the stats his replacement has put up in his stead at Providence (.927) his stats last year (.930) confirm what I felt - that he benefitted from the system that team plays the same as Jankowski is hurt by it.

Mangiapane ahead of Granlund doesn't seem right either.

Granlund's struggles at the NHL level being used against him is silly to me. Especially since much of the season he faced really tough checking when Bennett was on his line.

Many of the 'fallers' make a lot of sense though - Culkin (thought he should probably be ranked even lower - losing a lot of development time, and though I don't watch the ECHL at all, 8 assists in 36 games doesn't seem very encouraging.

I just think that's so unfair. A year ago Culkin was the farm team's best defensive defenseman (well, maybe behind Corey Potter, but he's also a 30+ NHL vet) while leading the AHL in rookie power play points. I don't think those abilities just disappeared because he hurt his shoulder and got demoted to another league. It's the same thing as Kulak last year, being in the ECHL or hurt are out of his control. Are the stats bad? Sure but we already know he has put up better stats in a better league at a younger age so it's not a big deal to me.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, weird that Gillies rises to #1 at a time when he is out for the entire season. I think that is a function of a) the graduation of top guys and b) other key guys having bad years.

My top 10 right now would be:

Gillies (despite it being weird)
Poirier (not worried about a slow start)
Kylington
Anderson
Hickey
Jankowski
Ortio (tough year, but he'll be back)
McDonald
Kulak (like Wotherspoon, can he take the next step?)
Klimchuk

honourable mentions: Grant, Wotherspoon, Arnold

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Can't say I agree with a lot of his ranking, but always good to read a Haynes' article.

I am not sure where some of the moves are coming from. Gillies jumping to #1 from #5 is a bit surprising to me. Only a handful of games played, and a long-term injury. Now his injury doesn't necessarily mean he should drop in the rankings, but I just don't see the logic for him to jump up either.

Agreed...I was very surprised to see Gillies #1. And probably more surprised to see that Mason McDonald was ranked #3 last time behind only Bennett and Poirier). Goalies are typically very unpredictable.

I still like Poirier as our top prospect and Jankowski should be a little higher. But with all the graduated prospects over the past couple years and the recent draft picks trades, our prospects seem to be a lot weaker than the past couple years. I think it shows how great it'd be to get a couple 1st and 2nd round picks by unloading the expiring contracts.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Can't say I agree with a lot of his ranking, but always good to read a Haynes' article.

I am not sure where some of the moves are coming from. Gillies jumping to #1 from #5 is a bit surprising to me. Only a handful of games played, and a long-term injury. Now his injury doesn't necessarily mean he should drop in the rankings, but I just don't see the logic for him to jump up either.

I agree Kylington is being underrated on his list. Not easy for a kid from Sweden to come to North America and play pro at the age of 18. Sure he was playing against men in Sweden (and that is impressive too!), but feel he should probably be ranked higher based on his 2-way play so far this season.

Arnold below Karnaukhov doesn't seem right to me. Mangiapane ahead of Granlund doesn't seem right either.

Many of the 'fallers' make a lot of sense though - Culkin (thought he should probably be ranked even lower - losing a lot of development time, and though I don't watch the ECHL at all, 8 assists in 36 games doesn't seem very encouraging. Ortio was no big surprise (though there is still hope for him),

Still, it is interesting to see someone's take on who the top prospects are.

Regarding Gillies moving up - Bennett graduated and Poirier and McDonald haven't had good years. But yes - more of default #1 rather than earning it which is a bit concerning.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Ya I don't understand why Kylington is so low. It sounds like very little research was done to come up with this.

Last I checked Kylington was playing top AHL minutes and looking much better defensively apart from the occasional gaff which even Brodie was guilty of between 18-22. He's also scored some Karlssonesque goals. Kylington's gained 10+ lbs of muscle since the start of the season. It seems the question marks causing him to drop in the draft have been answered.

Jankowski should also be in the top-5. He was the best forward at prospect camp and followed it up with a very solid season so far. He's the number 1 shutdown guy on his powerhouse NCAA team and is also scoring at a good pace.

[dammage79]

I think Haynes hasn't really been keeping up to date too much on Stockton because Kylington would not be that low if he was. In fact the 2nd last line of his Kylington paragraph kind re-affirms that. I read this last week and though nothing of it. But I'd definitely have Kylington higher.

My Top Ten in case anyone cared:

1. Janko
2. Andersson
3. Gillies
4. Kylington
5. Hickey
6. Ortio
7. Mangiapane
8. Poirier
9. Bill Arnold
10. Klimchuk

[FBI]

Pretty crazy that janko is now #1 on some of our lists. In my top 5 for sure.

[Poe969]

I honestly think that Buzz Kylington is going to be the player with the most impact on that list. I think he's going to be a really good scoring, fast skating defender with an amazing nickname.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I think Haynes hasn't really been keeping up to date too much on Stockton because Kylington would not be that low if he was. In fact the 2nd last line of his Kylington paragraph kind re-affirms that. I read this last week and though nothing of it. But I'd definitely have Kylington higher.

My Top Ten in case anyone cared:

1. Janko
2. Andersson
3. Gillies
4. Kylington
5. Hickey
6. Ortio
7. Mangiapane
8. Poirier
9. Bill Arnold
10. Klimchuk

He keeps close tabs on them. I think it is a mistake when people assume because they have a different opinion than you - that it means they must know less.

[Vinny01]

That list is not very impressive anymore. Having said that is is to be expected with the Graduation of guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, and Bennett. Couple that with trading 3 picks in the top 60 for Hamilton the cupboard is a little more bare because of it. When you have 5 core players on your NHL team between 19-25 it is not the end of the world if you lack an elite prospect. Flames look poised to add one to the list this summer and hopefully a few more 2nd rounders to increase the depth of the system

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

He keeps close tabs on them. I think it is a mistake when people assume because they have a different opinion than you - that it means they must know less.

What? Where did I say that huh? I fashioned my response based on the fact everyone else shares the opposite opinion of what Haynes said. Which led me to believe he mustn't be paying that close of an eye on the Heat comparared to others. You hate it when people put words in your mouth, don't do it to me.

Edit: and how do you know how closely the guy pays attention to the farm team or not?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by dammage79

What? Where did I say that huh? I fashioned my response based on the fact everyone else shares the opposite opinion of what Haynes said. Which led me to believe he mustn't be paying that close of an eye on the Heat comparared to others. You hate it when people put words in your mouth, don't do it to me.

Edit: and how do you know how closely the guy pays attention to the farm team or not?

The other consideration is Darren Haynes is listing the impact in NHL that a prospect will have.

Therefore, it makes sense to list Gillies as #1, as he is billed as a future #1 goalie. Janko is more of a #3 Center in my view

"For my rankings, note also that this isn't the order I expect players to ascend to the NHL.

Do not view it as a 'who will be next?' chronological list. Instead, it is a hybrid approach that also factors in the impact/role I expect that player to have when (or if) they do make it to the NHL."