[News] Upd: Drouin decides to sit out until trade is completed. Lightning suspend him

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Not right now.....while suspended but he would have been paid if they allowed his request to sit out.

Why would they 'allow' him to sit out? He's under contract.....he should be playing.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

For me it is, and I'm guessing it is for a lot of other hockey fans out there.

I agree with that, although I'd say it's in part due to his overall image especially at the height of his career. Plus he's unusually memorable as a player.

As for Drouin, it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't really any worthwhile offers made. As I already said earlier in the thread, it could very well be that GM's feel there's just too much risk involved.

It's not just about Drouin, it's the possibility that he starts giving the same idea to your other prospects. Is that a risk worth taking for the sake of Drouin? Especially since Yzerman still isn't going to give up Drouin for free.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

As you stated above, choice #1 is to allow him to sit... well, as I pointed out, that does NOTHING to help the Lightning get good trade value to him, so they wouldn't want that.
So choice #2 is to let him just walk away from the team... obviously no better for the Lightning. Worse? Maybe, but everyone is going to be asking why they aren't playing the kid?

Yes it is worse. Someone asks why is he sitting you simply say "we think we're close on a deal and we don't want to risk an injury scuttling the deal"... according to Drouin's agent that was what they told him (that they were close on a deal) so let him sit out a few games and continue to practice. If the deal falls through, you tell him that a deal is no longer close, and if he still refuses to play then by all means suspend him (because by that point no one will buy that a trade is close).

Seeing as both are bad, why should they have his trade value hurt but allow Drouin to come out smelling like a rose by picking the option that is better for him?

You just said why... because it allows Drouin to "come out smelling like a rose". What would you rather buy, a product that smells like a rose or a product that smells like manure? It's in the Lightnings best interests for Drouin to "smell" as good as he possibly can. Yes both are bad... but the avenue they chose was worse.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I'm not so sure. I think the GM needs to look after the best interest of his club. If he simply gifts a promising asset (Drouin) to another club, he's not working in the best interest of the club.

Why trade him for scraps, if that's all that's being offered? Yzerman should wait until the right deal comes along, and he's got several years to wait. Why rush it? It might be the "right" thing to do to make a trade asap for the kid to revive his career, but Yzerman is in the business of winning, period. Nothing else.

Drouin should fire the agent, and apologize to the boss, then work his keester off in the minors. Who knows, maybe he's good enough for a xallup on the big club.

I'm skeptical that Drouin's value will increase past this summer and if it does I think its marginal at best. I don't think anyone really benefits by holding onto him long term waiting for this deal that might never come.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Lightning are not just being petty. They are also doing what they can to maintain the perception that they control the negotiation. If they panicked as a result of Drouin's decision to sit, it is entirely possible that this then become a validated negotiating tactic for every team's most valuable commodities: contracted RFAs. TB is doing their utmost to protect that negotiating power, which is smart.

You're commenting on something I never said. I fully support the Lightnings decision to hold on to the kid and look for a trade that makes sense. I don't see the benefit of holding onto him long term as in one, two, three years. Which is why I think a trade will likely be made by the start of next season.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yes it is worse. Someone asks why is he sitting you simply say "we think we're close on a deal and we don't want to risk an injury scuttling the deal"... according to Drouin's agent that was what they told him (that they were close on a deal) so let him sit out a few games and continue to practice. If the deal falls through, you tell him that a deal is no longer close, and if he still refuses to play then by all means suspend him (because by that point no one will buy that a trade is close).

Sure - that makes sense. I actually believe IF a deal had really been close, then Yzerman would do what he had to do so that the deal happened.

As he didn't, my inference is that Drouin and his camp hoped it was closer than it was... In the end, they just wanted to force Yzerman into a corner and take less to get things done.

You just said why... because it allows Drouin to "come out smelling like a rose". What would you rather buy, a product that smells like a rose or a product that smells like manure? It's in the Lightnings best interests for Drouin to "smell" as good as he possibly can. Yes both are bad... but the avenue they chose was worse.

Problem is that this is essentially caving to blackmail. Sometimes you just need to stand your ground or others will take advantage of you. Another example of that was the Burke/Cammalleri non-trade so other teams wouldn't expect the Flames to cave in future years.

As I agreed above, you maybe make an exception if the deal is CLOSE, but you don't just let him do whatever he wants to force a deal when the offers aren't there. Besides, you really don't think the other GMs would have seen right through the ole, "We're just sitting him as a deal is close..." act? They know what's going on...



Note: Sorry, I've had a few late nights in a row, and I'm finding my ability to express my thoughts a little lacking right now...

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Sure - that makes sense. I actually believe IF a deal had really been close, then Yzerman would do what he had to do so that the deal happened.

As he didn't, my inference is that Drouin and his camp hoped it was closer than it was... In the end, they just wanted to force Yzerman into a corner and take less to get things done.





Problem is that this is essentially caving to blackmail. Sometimes you just need to stand your ground or others will take advantage of you. Another example of that was the Burke/Cammalleri non-trade so other teams wouldn't expect the Flames to cave in future years.

As I agreed above, you maybe make an exception if the deal is CLOSE, but you don't just let him do whatever he wants to force a deal when the offers aren't there. Besides, you really don't think the other GMs would have seen right through the ole, "We're just sitting him as a deal is close..." act? They know what's going on...



Note: Sorry, I've had a few late nights in a row, and I'm finding my ability to express my thoughts a little lacking right now...

I still think that was dumb as hell. I think trades are based on a case by case basis based on the value of player being traded. I dont believe if we got what ever we could get for Cammy instead of nothing that suddenly any other player we trade is worth less cause they think we will cave. If your option is something or nothing you take the something. Nothing stopping them from lowballing on every other player they trade at the end of the day they can still say yes or no.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Parallex

... [Giving Drouin permission to sit] allows Drouin to "come out smelling like a rose". What would you rather buy, a product that smells like a rose or a product that smells like manure? It's in the Lightnings best interests for Drouin to "smell" as good as he possibly can. Yes both are bad... but the avenue they chose was worse.

I'm quite certain that from TB's perspective the best course to ensure that Drouin "comes out smelling like a rose," as you say is to have Drouin playing games and asserting his own value. Over half the teams in the NHL had scouts at the Marlies game in which he declined to play. What do you think they were there to see? The fact is, NOBODY in the League is just prepared to give him the benefit of doubt here. There are real concerns about his durability, will and his ability to carry over his skills to another level, and until he demonstrates that, there will not be much demand. He needs to play, and the Lightning are painfully aware of that.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Why would they 'allow' him to sit out? He's under contract.....he should be playing.

That was my point...

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

That was my point...

Sorry, misunderstood. My bad.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I'm quite certain that from TB's perspective the best course to ensure that Drouin "comes out smelling like a rose," as you say is to have Drouin playing games and asserting his own value.

I didn't say. Carnage said it and I just continued the metaphor.

Regardless, of course that's the better situation... but that wasn't an option that Yzerman actually had. The actual options were either he sits with your permission or he sits without it. In terms of maximizing your return it's better for Drouin to be seen sitting out either with your permission or on your order then the alternative.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I still think that was dumb as hell. I think trades are based on a case by case basis based on the value of player being traded. I dont believe if we got what ever we could get for Cammy instead of nothing that suddenly any other player we trade is worth less cause they think we will cave. If your option is something or nothing you take the something. Nothing stopping them from lowballing on every other player they trade at the end of the day they can still say yes or no.

So you don't think some GMs are better traders than others?

Trading is a skill, like anything else. Some people are better at it than others, and everyone gets better with practice. In a small community of repetitive traders, reputation and track record are very important.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Lindros held out at the draft, and while he's certainly remembered for it (But moreso remembered for the trade return that landed him in Philly), it's not even close to the defining characteristic of his career.

For me:

1. The holdout.
2. The trade for Peter Forsberg et al.
3. The Scott Stevens hit and other random concussions.
5. The crazy medling dad.
6. The Legion of Doom.
7. Having his rookie card as a kid and thinking it would be worth a fortune ($4 bucks on Ebay now).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I didn't say. Carnage said it and I just continued the metaphor.

Got it.

Originally Posted by Parallex

Regardless, of course that's the better situation... but that wasn't an option that Yzerman actually had. The actual options were either he sits with your permission or he sits without it. In terms of maximizing your return it's better for Drouin to be seen sitting out either with your permission or on your order then the alternative.

I still don't think that is remotely practical, because from another GM's standpoint, this makes no sense at all. When was the last time a team kept a player off the ice in an effort to maximize his trade value? It happens when a trade is completed conditionally that players are taken out of action in order to protect the new team's asset, but this is not that.

When Drouin was dispatched to Syracuse, there were reports that potential trading partners were concerned about Drouin's health and consistency. Let's pretend that Yzerman did as you suggested. When approached by another GM, who wonders why Drouin is not playing in a game in which he had intended on evaluating his play in an effort to strike a deal, Yzerman tells him that he is not playing because he "doesn't want to risk Drouin suffering an injury."

What half-way competent NHL GM is going to trade for a player THAT fragile? What half-way competent NHL GM is going to simply accept Yzerman's guarantee that Drouin is good-to-go?

It sounds like a nice idea, but it would simply never fly. It might work okay to quell rumours in the media, but no one who really matters in this situation would believe it, and it would not in any way aide in maintaining or increasing Drouin's value.

He needs to play. Full stop.

[sureLoss]

Adrian Dater @adater
Picking up renewed chatter that Drouin is in play with Avs. Bigras and/or pick could be in play. Others making new calls to TB too though

For those wondering who Bigras is : http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=117736


If true, it does seem like the price for Drouin has dropped. The rumored asking price has gone from young NHLers who were contributing to their team, to young players who are on the verge of maybe becoming NHLers.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So you don't think some GMs are better traders than others?



Trading is a skill, like anything else. Some people are better at it than others, and everyone gets better with practice. In a small community of repetitive traders, reputation and track record are very important.

True, but does anyone seriously think Brian Burke's reputation was going to be ruined by selling low on Cammy? Plus there was a new GM coming in after the season. Don't tell me that it's the team that carries the push over reputation.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Adrian Dater @adater
Picking up renewed chatter that Drouin is in play with Avs. Bigras and/or pick could be in play. Others making new calls to TB too though

For those wondering who Bigras is : http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=117736


If true, it does seem like the price for Drouin has dropped. The rumored asking price has gone from young NHLers who were contributing to their team, to young players who are on the verge of maybe becoming NHLers.

Sounds like lots of posters may have to eat crow. Thats a similar trade, or even lower return, that some said Yzerman would be fired over.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Sounds like lots of posters may have to eat crow. Thats a similar trade, or even lower return, that some said Yzerman would be fired over.

A bit premature for an "I told you so!" post don't you think?

[Heavy Jack]

If thats the ask now I hope Trelivin throws in a offer that includes Wotherspoon.

Something like Wotherspoon + Hudler 1/2 retained + Klimchuk or Poirier and a 3rd or 2nd

I know he's being a dink but I still think Drouin's ceiling is too high to ignore.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

If thats the ask now I hope Trelivin throws in a offer that includes Wotherspoon.

Something like Wotherspoon + Hudler 1/2 retained + Klimchuk or Poirier and a 3rd or 2nd

I know he's being a dink but I still think Drouin's ceiling is too high to ignore.

Another crazy over payment proposal?

Avs are basically offering two 2nds.