CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[RM14]

I thought the flames involvement of this proposal is only limited to the sports facilities. Then, the village itself would be managed by the CMLC on behalf of the City. Exactly how the East Village was.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

The Flames are jamming the current version of CalgaryNEXT down our throat as the only option because its the only option where they can grab a sweet slice of real estate and develop it later. That is not possible on the Stampede Grounds.

This is why I call out everyone who says the Stampede Board is some meddling evil group who won't work with the Flames. That's not the case at all. The Stampede would freakin love to have the new arena on the Grounds. It's the Flames who don't want to be there because they can't make as much money.

Ken, why do you think the Stampede needs to be convinced of Plan A? Why wouldn't they love the idea of Plan A?

It's a little different. City owns all the land in WV. They arent going to give the team anymore land than is needed for the Rink/stadium. If they want anymore they would have to pay for it. The land is valuable with or without the rink

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cappy

It's a little different. City owns all the land in WV. They arent going to give the team anymore land than is needed for the Rink/stadium. If they want anymore they would have to pay for it. The land is valuable with or without the rink

Immensely! They've been sitting on that land for 30 years, just waiting to sell it off. Oh wait, it's contaminated and they haven't been able to do anything with it. Connection?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by browna

or if the area was to be the location of the National Music Centre or other destination for the Arts, as well as adding some sort of educational or social service centre as Ottawa, it may have played well with the Mayor, moreso than even a Field House.

They could have had that opportunity a few years ago. Working with the Stampede on their Youth Campus Development would have been another option. Ships have sailed though.

Originally Posted by The Familia

I'd love to see the Coral completely gutted and renovated into a nice modern 8000 seat arena. We don't have a good venue of that size.

Half of the staircases in the seating bowl are slanted. I'm just guessing, but I suspect the age of the existing building would make it very difficult to renovate to modern codes with much savings compared to starting from scratch. I do agree that we are missing a nice 5-8k size venue, but I don't know if there is really the demand for one?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why are only the things that you value important?

I agree with much of what you posted here. But I also want to see a cutting edge arena and gathering area, like LA and others. They also add to a city.

A vibrant city needs parklands, AND streetscapes, AND an arts community, AND museums, AND sports facilities, AND...

Listing subsets and claiming they are what is important seems to me to be what is small-minded. (not directed at you)

The key distinction I would argue that differentiates all of the things listed from an event complex is accessibility and availability to the general public. Some of those things may have small user fees, but nothing compared to arena tickets. I suspect the benefit per citizen per dollar spent ratio is also higher for the other items (obviously difficult to quantify and certainly subjective to personal preferences)

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Ken, why do you think the Stampede needs to be convinced of Plan A? Why wouldn't they love the idea of Plan A?

Just my gut, but I would think the Flames would have pitched an idea like this to the Stampede, and instead of money from condo sales they would have been looking for other ways the Stampede Board could have benefited. A few off the top of my head- parking, an entertainment district, possibly even a hotel. Basically assuming the city would give $200M for a fieldhouse, the Flames are still short another $200M.

5500 parking spots for 45 Flames games per year at $20 a pop is just shy of $5M per year. Add another 36 Hitmen games, assuming 2500 spots, and 10 Stamps games at the full 5500, and that's another $3M. That's $8M per year in parking money alone.

I don't have numbers for anything else, because that is obviously far less tangible. But there is money on the table, and it is quite likely that both sides with their own wants couldn't leave enough for the other party.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by New Era

Immensely! They've been sitting on that land for 30 years, just waiting to sell it off. Oh wait, it's contaminated and they haven't been able to do anything with it. Connection?

Haven't been able to do anything with it?

I wouldn't say that. The city has a plan for that land; and they are rightfully waiting to act on it.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cappy

The city has a plan for that land; and they are rightfully waiting to act on it.

Really? What would that super secret squirrel plan be? They've been sitting on it for decades and have not been able to get anyone interested in developing it because of the potential remediation costs and long term hazardous conditions of the site. What possible plan for this do they have an why have they been waiting for decades to do anything with it?

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by New Era

Immensely! They've been sitting on that land for 30 years, just waiting to sell it off. Oh wait, it's contaminated and they haven't been able to do anything with it. Connection?

What are you talking about?

You posted this in response to someone saying that Flames wouldn't own the land for the condo's as the city would sell the valuable land to developers.

The project doesn't get completed unless the contamination gets cleaned up, and as the Flames aren't paying for that contamination, they shouldn't get the land.

If the project goes ahead, the land gets cleaned. The city owned land is now valuable as hell.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Tyler

You guys are missing the key crucial point of not having it on the Stampede grounds - condo development. The Flames owners want to develop all the condos and shops around the West Village, because that's where the REAL money is. That can't and won't happen on Stampede grounds.

That's precisely why there is no plan B.

Also, Stampede Grounds are a bit floody.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really? What would that super secret squirrel plan be? They've been sitting on it for decades and have not been able to get anyone interested in developing it because of the potential remediation costs and long term hazardous conditions of the site. What possible plan for this do they have an why have they been waiting for decades to do anything with it?

It's not exactly secret. It's on the City's website.

In 2010 (when Bronconnier was still mayor), City Council approved a very high-level redevelopment plan for the area: http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...illage-arp.pdf

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Next person to mention LA live gets shot.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really? What would that super secret squirrel plan be? They've been sitting on it for decades and have not been able to get anyone interested in developing it because of the potential remediation costs and long term hazardous conditions of the site. What possible plan for this do they have an why have they been waiting for decades to do anything with it?

Originally Posted by getbak

It's not exactly secret. It's on the City's website.

In 2010 (when Bronconnier was still mayor), City Council approved a very high-level redevelopment plan for the area: http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...illage-arp.pdf

[Roughneck]

Can't get development without remediation, best way to pay for remediation is with a CRL, best way to fund a CRL is with a large anchor tenant with a hefty property tax payment.

Flames instead want the CRL to pay for the big anchor tenant that would would owned by the city and therefore not contribute to the CRL that isn't paying for remediation which is required for development to occur...

Looks like the Saddledome will have to do for a while.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by getbak

It's not exactly secret. It's on the City's website.

In 2010 (when Bronconnier was still mayor), City Council approved a very high-level redevelopment plan for the area: http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...illage-arp.pdf

A high concept development plan. Very high concept. No real development plans or anyone interested in getting involved in it, but it is a plan. I'll give them that. Ironically the Flames are getting #### all over for presenting something with about as much substance.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by New Era

A high concept development plan. Very high concept. No real development plans or anyone interested in getting involved in it, but it is a plan. I'll give them that. Ironically the Flames are getting #### all over for presenting something with about as much substance.

you didn't respond to my post

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by New Era

A high concept development plan. Very high concept. No real development plans or anyone interested in getting involved in it, but it is a plan. I'll give them that. Ironically the Flames are getting #### all over for presenting something with about as much substance.

The city isn't asking us to fund a massive project. You can bet they will/would have a better plan when they are ready to actually forward

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

What are you talking about?

You posted this in response to someone saying that Flames wouldn't own the land for the condo's as the city would sell the valuable land to developers.

The project doesn't get completed unless the contamination gets cleaned up, and as the Flames aren't paying for that contamination, they shouldn't get the land.

If the project goes ahead, the land gets cleaned. The city owned land is now valuable as hell.

Follow along...

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The city isn't asking us to fund a massive project. You can bet they will/would have a better plan when they are ready to actually forward

And when is this magical date when they move forward? They have been sitting on this land for decades. Plans have come and gone, and no one has ever stepped up to make this site work. The clean up has always been contingent on a development commitment and the commitment has always been contingent on the remediation being completed with no costs going to the developer. Hence it has never been developed. What value does the land have if there is such a large roadblock to development? Again, this has been sitting there for decades. Seems to me that whatever happens at this site the tax payers are going to be left holding the bag. The only question here is how much is the bill going to be and what type of benefit will we get once the development takes place.

[Barnes]

The magical date is when the EV is complete. They don't want to compete against themselves. It's kinda crazy that you continue to argue.

[Reneeee]

Originally Posted by Barnes

The magical date is when the EV is complete. They don't want to compete against themselves. It's kinda crazy that you continue to argue.

So you're essentially saying West Village doesn't break ground for another seven years as that's what I can find on EV completion (2023)?? By that time the dome will be 45 if given a 5 year build. I just don't see the flames or the city waiting another decade for this to get completed.

I think if the city were to make a drastic decision, shaganappi point golf course would be the perfect place to put an entertainment district with minimal issues to Calgarians and no creosote to worry about. Of course the traffic in the area would still be a mess with westbound bow and southbound crowchild.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by New Era

Follow along...

.

Follow along with what?

You quoted a post which was posted after my two posts.

2nd... it actually doesn't contradict anything I said....

If public dollars pay the contamination (lets just say provincial) - how does this exactly turn into Flames owned Condo's? Oh - because we gave them free land for an arena beside our river?

You're not reading what people are posting, simply posting.