CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[The Familia]

It is crazy how dilapidated our spots infrastructure is. Using Winnipeg and Edmonton as examples, they both have way better arenas, football stadiums, and even baseball parks. Saddledome is aging badly, McMahon is on life support, Foothills soccer and baseball stadiums (if you even want to call them that) are practically dead as they crumble and rust away, some of our Olympic venues are in major need of a facelift and tummy tuck (ski jump towers, bobsleigh track, oval), we have no field house, the Corral sits alone and forgotten in a seniors home, and the list goes on. The only facility worth bragging about in this city is the new Winsport centre. Talisman centre while cool and functional could really use a modern facelift as well. Pretty sad if you ask me.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by The Familia

It is crazy how dilapidated our spots infrastructure is. Using Winnipeg and Edmonton as examples, they both have way better arenas, football stadiums, and even baseball parks. Saddledome is aging badly, McMahon is on life support, Foothills soccer and baseball stadiums (if you even want to call them that) are practically dead as they crumble and rust away, some of our Olympic venues are in major need of a facelift and tummy tuck (ski jump towers, bobsleigh track, oval), we have no field house, the Corral sits alone and forgotten in a seniors home, and the list goes on. The only facility worth bragging about in this city is the new Winsport centre. Talisman centre while cool and functional could really use a modern facelift as well. Pretty sad if you ask me.

Agreed, Calgary is lacking in so many areas in terms of sporting infrastructure. Lack of minor hockey ice, lack of indoor soccer facilities are a couple more examples.

I understand the concerns around financing the project....

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Does anyone else find this entire situation pretty hilarious? Because I do, and when you think about it, it's all just so absurd.

I don't think there are any comparable situations in pro sports. The mismanagement and poor delivery of a project the majority of the city was ready to get behind now has the support of less than 25% of people in arguably the most positively slanted community the Flames have.

The question now is whether King is strolling around the Saddledome still believing that this disaster of a plan will get pushed through, or has he admitted to himself that it's back to the drawing board? My money is on the former.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by The Familia

It is crazy how dilapidated our spots infrastructure is. Using Winnipeg and Edmonton as examples, they both have way better arenas, football stadiums, and even baseball parks. Saddledome is aging badly, McMahon is on life support, Foothills soccer and baseball stadiums (if you even want to call them that) are practically dead as they crumble and rust away, some of our Olympic venues are in major need of a facelift and tummy tuck (ski jump towers, bobsleigh track, oval), we have no field house, the Corral sits alone and forgotten in a seniors home, and the list goes on. The only facility worth bragging about in this city is the new Winsport centre. Talisman centre while cool and functional could really use a modern facelift as well. Pretty sad if you ask me.

To be fair, Seaman Stadium in Okotoks is pretty top tier for a venue of its size.

[CliffFletcher]

One of the ways I like to challenge conspiracy theorists is to point out that the rich and powerful aren't uber-competent masters of the universe. They're just as prone to folly and bad judgement as the rest of us. Going forward, I'll be using the bewildering incompetence of the CalgaryNEXT project as an example to illustrate my argument.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by The Familia

It is crazy how dilapidated our spots infrastructure is. Using Winnipeg and Edmonton as examples, they both have way better arenas, football stadiums, and even baseball parks. Saddledome is aging badly, McMahon is on life support, Foothills soccer and baseball stadiums (if you even want to call them that) are practically dead as they crumble and rust away, some of our Olympic venues are in major need of a facelift and tummy tuck (ski jump towers, bobsleigh track, oval), we have no field house, the Corral sits alone and forgotten in a seniors home, and the list goes on. The only facility worth bragging about in this city is the new Winsport centre. Talisman centre while cool and functional could really use a modern facelift as well. Pretty sad if you ask me.

The Corral is legendary. I played a couple of beer league games there and it's just so bad that it's awesome. Like an old football stadium in Europe. Her Majesty watching each flick of your stick and each stride of your skates makes you try that little bit harder.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

One of the ways I like to challenge conspiracy theorists is to point out that the rich and powerful aren't uber-competent masters of the universe. They're just as prone to folly and bad judgement as the rest of us. Going forward, I'll be using the bewildering incompetence of the CalgaryNEXT project as an example to illustrate my argument.

Haha I am with you on that one. Although steel beams don't melt at the temperature that jet fuel burns so..... haha kidding.

[polak]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, that's only partially true. Based on urban population figures Calgary comes in top 10, just a head of San Jose and just about the size of Dallas. Where American cities get the edge is metro population based on urban sprawl. Unfortunately that also works against the big cities. For example, even though I'm a hockey junkie I get to maybe one or two games a year,, because I live 1 1/2 hours from the arena. In Calgary I could easily live in the burbs and attend games. Can't do that in the metro areas.

Only reason Calgary is 9th there is that it's rare (or non existant?) for US cities to use the Unicity model like Calgary. They don't amalgamate suburbs like Calgary does.

Imagine how tiny Calgary would be if Forest Lawn, Midnapore, Bowness and all those other towns grew on their own instead of merging into Calgary and allowing Calgary to build new subdivisions around them.

Anyways, all I was trying to get at is that were pretty spoiled for the big city feel we get here compared to other cities of our size. CalgaryNext and Ken King still failed.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

One of the ways I like to challenge conspiracy theorists is to point out that the rich and powerful aren't uber-competent masters of the universe. They're just as prone to folly and bad judgement as the rest of us. Going forward, I'll be using the bewildering incompetence of the CalgaryNEXT project as an example to illustrate my argument.

They seem to want to continue emphasizing the bewildering incompetence that is CalgaryNext. Ken "PowerPoint" King continues to present his slide deck around town.

From January 13th at the Glencoe Club.

[johnnybegaudreau]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

I'm one of the 25% in favour. This is based on an assumption that what Ken King presented to the public was a watered down version of what has been presented to the city. I'm assuming this, because that's a fairly typical strategy - dumb it down for Joe Public. However, perhaps I missed something? Has it been confirmed the information given to the city was a print out of the PowerPoint given to the public?

Also, Nenshi's comments regarding Bettman sounded petty. Nenshi shoudl be better than that.

This makes utterly no sense. Council represent the people if you want to get something done. Present your best proposal so that the public puts pressure on their council to get it done. They had 5+ years. I'm sorry but with 60+% of people against the project proposal and 15% undecided you're going no where. IF the Flames had actually thought this out properly and had a truly reveloutionary project that would change calgary then it be a no brainer. Unfortunately, this is not what it is pitched as. It's not revolutionary, it's not even half baked. What has Ken King been doing for the last 5 years. He should be fired.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah after seeing some of the other plans in other cities it really just highlights how terrible the CalgaryNext proposal was.

Just an absolute gongshow that the Flames Org and Ken King should be embarrassed by.

We have been hearing about this for 5 years now, it has been said that it is taking up the majority of Ken King's time, and the best we can come up with were some terrible renders in a powerpoint.

I don't even mind the proposed solution, it's more just to do with the way they have handled trying to roll this out.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by The Familia

It is crazy how dilapidated our spots infrastructure is. Using Winnipeg and Edmonton as examples, they both have way better arenas, football stadiums, and even baseball parks. Saddledome is aging badly, McMahon is on life support, Foothills soccer and baseball stadiums (if you even want to call them that) are practically dead as they crumble and rust away, some of our Olympic venues are in major need of a facelift and tummy tuck (ski jump towers, bobsleigh track, oval), we have no field house, the Corral sits alone and forgotten in a seniors home, and the list goes on. The only facility worth bragging about in this city is the new Winsport centre. Talisman centre while cool and functional could really use a modern facelift as well. Pretty sad if you ask me.

I agree. so lets take the 450 the City is supposed to spend on the project and start fixing up that stuff! ;-)

[The Familia]

I'd love to see the Coral completely gutted and renovated into a nice modern 8000 seat arena. We don't have a good venue of that size. Would be nice to keep the historical building but modernize it....who am I kidding. The Coral, Saddledome, McMahon, Foothills, and Talisman Center will all be standing in either their current or a worse state in another 15 years.

To me it seems Calgary has lost a lot of its Can-Do attitude it once possessed in the late 80's. We were the little-city-that-could and punched our way to the top by obtaining such things as the Olympics and building a world-class (at the time) arena. The whole city was united and really strived for the best. I find too many people in this city don't care about the growth and appearance of Calgary anymore. The transient population doesn't care about the city. They want their money and then they will leave. I'm glad that the tide appears to be turning somewhat with projects like the Peace Bridge, East Village, BOW tower, new library, and music center. The crying that surrounds these projects though is disheartening. Time to regain our swagger and aim high.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by The Familia

To me it seems Calgary has lost a lot of its Can-Do attitude it once possessed in the late 80's. We were the little-city-that-could and punched our way to the top by obtaining such things as the Olympics and building a world-class (at the time) arena. The whole city was united and really strived for the best. I find too many people in this city don't care about the growth and appearance of Calgary anymore. The transient population doesn't care about the city. They want their money and then they will leave. I'm glad that the tide appears to be turning somewhat with projects like the Peace Bridge, East Village, BOW tower, new library, and music center. The crying that surrounds these projects though is disheartening. Time to regain our swagger and aim high.

Don't confuse lack of support for CalgaryNEXT with lack of support for grand city-defining projects. Personally, I would love to see something of high-calibre that aims to be way better than what a mid-size Canadian city should expect.

The problem is that CalgaryNEXT is not that.

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Don't confuse lack of support for CalgaryNEXT with lack of support for grand city-defining projects. Personally, I would love to see something of high-calibre that aims to be way better than what a mid-size Canadian city should expect.

The problem is that CalgaryNEXT is not that.

I agree. I'm not confusing the two, CalgaryNEXT is not a city changing proposal as it stands now.

[CroFlames]

I wish they could just take a carbon copy of LA Live and plop in down in either downtown CGY or where the current Saddledome is.

Nice modern arena, a plaza, a convention center, hotel and surrounded by restaurants. Easy peasy.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Next person to mention LA live gets shot.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I agree. I'm not confusing the two, CalgaryNEXT is not a city changing proposal as it stands now.

I'm concerned that Ken King thinks it is.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Next person to mention LA live gets shot.

Spoiler!

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by The Familia

To me it seems Calgary has lost a lot of its Can-Do attitude it once possessed in the late 80's. We were the little-city-that-could and punched our way to the top by obtaining such things as the Olympics and building a world-class (at the time) arena. The whole city was united and really strived for the best. I find too many people in this city don't care about the growth and appearance of Calgary anymore. The transient population doesn't care about the city. They want their money and then they will leave. I'm glad that the tide appears to be turning somewhat with projects like the Peace Bridge, East Village, BOW tower, new library, and music center. The crying that surrounds these projects though is disheartening. Time to regain our swagger and aim high.

I don't know if I agree with this. I think the city has come along way in defining what type of city it wants to be and aiming high. There are so many projects that have been embraced by the people here, among those you mentioned, like the Bow building, East Village, River Walk, the green corridor, etc., and the people have more to be excited about on the horizon!

I think most Calgarians have just matured when it come to what makes the city great, and what it takes to make a great city. We focus now on quality of life, street-scapes, parks, public art, and public/free goods rather than the monoliths of years past. We have also become more discernable on what and how we expect the government to spend our money.


This is not aimed at you but I can't help shake the feeling that the people criticizing opponents of CalgaryNEXT as "small-minded" or "small-city oriented" as a bit of a reverse.

Small-city people are the ones who think a city needs a grand vision of something. A monolith or some defining event to establish credibility. They think that to be a Paris/NY, you need an Eiffel Tower / Empire State Building; but the opposite is true. What people love about those cities, what makes them world class is the streetscapes, the density, the vibe of the place. CalgaryNEXT (in whatever form) won't change that in Calgary.