[Rumour] Prelim contract negotiations w Gaudreau & Monahan. Some interest in Hudler as rental.

[1qqaaz]

"While Edwards thinks there are some very talented players available, he had some thoughts on the draft overall. “I think it’s lacking the depth we’ve seen in some other drafts. I especially notice it in the second round. There are some solid players but when we look around the various leagues as a staff, we feel it’s a down year for depth just about everywhere. A lot of the top Euros are playing in the CHL, so we think it’s a weaker group depth wise overseas as well.”"

Just quoting Sureloss quoting Edwards from the draft thread.

Meanwhile, there are quite a few strong free agents this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see some firsts moved.

[theTrumanShow]

Originally Posted by Fire

Yeah, I wouldn't be upset if they signed him to a reasonable 3 year deal. 3yr x 3.5 mill for example. Everyone is complaining about Hudler's play, but his current ppg is pretty close to his norm and this is while he's playing through an injury.

I would hate to see the top two lines next season if they can't find a reasonable replacement for Hudler.

Matthews would look nice on one of those lines!

[zyzz]

Shouldve flipped Hudler at the draft.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think fans should get too excited about the deadline as there's been a correction in the past few seasons and they could be looking at a 3rd round pick at best for Hudler or Jones and a 2nd round pick for Russell. You aren't going to see many teams flashing around 1st round picks at the deadline like the days of old.

Went back and (quickly) looked that this narrative that's been popular among some posters over the past year.
Randomly started at 2000. Didn't have specific trades up until 2007 and didn't feel like wasting time tracking them down.

1st round picks moved
2000 - 9
2001 - 11
2002 - 13
2003 - 11
2004 - 10
2005 - 6 (Lockout Draft - Lottery)
2006 - 7
2007 - 13 - (Before Deadline Trades - 6)
2008 - 17 - (Before Deadline Trades - 7)
2009 - 10 - (3)
2010 - 11 (3)
2011 - 11 (5)
2012 - 6(2)
2013 - 9 (6)
2014 - 7 (3)
2015 - 16 (7)

What's the blip and what's the correction?

Not sure if the narrative that 1st rounders are now gold is true. Seems like Gm's are gonna GM as normal.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Went back and (quickly) looked that this narrative that's been popular among some posters over the past year.
Randomly started at 2000. Didn't have specific trades up until 2007 and didn't feel like wasting time tracking them down.

What's the blip and what's the correction?

Not sure if the narrative that 1st rounders are now gold is true. Seems like Gm's are gonna GM as normal.

I think it's more about the known buyer vs known seller storylines and needs vs available commodities. If there is 5 or so clear contenders, and 5-10 clear sellers there's deals to be made. It also depends what is needed.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

"While Edwards thinks there are some very talented players available, he had some thoughts on the draft overall. “I think it’s lacking the depth we’ve seen in some other drafts. I especially notice it in the second round. There are some solid players but when we look around the various leagues as a staff, we feel it’s a down year for depth just about everywhere. A lot of the top Euros are playing in the CHL, so we think it’s a weaker group depth wise overseas as well.”"

Just quoting Sureloss quoting Edwards from the draft thread.

Meanwhile, there are quite a few strong free agents this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see some firsts moved.

This might be the year where I hope we get prospects vs picks. Doesn't seem to be the depth where we could pick up some quality in the latter half of the second, where most contenders would be picking. If we can get a prospect that is knocking on the door but is or is approaching waiver eligibility, might be able to get a player that can help us sooner rather than later.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

This might be the year where I hope we get prospects vs picks. Doesn't seem to be the depth where we could pick up some quality in the latter half of the second, where most contenders would be picking. If we can get a prospect that is knocking on the door but is or is approaching waiver eligibility, might be able to get a player that can help us sooner rather than later.

I wouldn't. Even if you aren't spending the picks on a prospect in the draft, you could potentially pull another Hamilton-like trade using the picks as currency. They grow in value over the year as teams start to really get stock of the draft eligible youngsters, and exponentially so around the big day when they are at a premium, after the scouts and management consult with one another and build the final list.

I guarantee you without the extra 2nds and 3rds (thank you Glencross, thank you Baertschi) we would not be standing here today with Dougie on our blueline and Kylington blooming in the AHL. Gotta think that consideration is still very, very fresh in Brad's mind.

Plus, Glencross was kinda floaty but still putting up enough points to impress WSH into paying a 2nd and 3rd for him. Hudler is progressing similarly, but unclear as to what kind of return he'd net.

I could see Granlund/Wotherspoon, or even both being traded. Last year of waiver-free movement and they haven't shown enough to stick in the NHL. Granlund just can't push our young new forwards out. Wotherspoon hasn't impressed. Perhaps a team in need of some youth that can step in and still contribute of sorts would be willing to give them a spot.

[FiveSeven]

Originally Posted by zyzz

Shouldve flipped Hudler at the draft.

It's really easy to say now, but at the time you're just flipping a coin.
Does he stay and help us win and maybe regress a bit but still play very well considering his linemates?

Or does he become a ghost perimeter player with seemingly no passion in a contract year? If he regressed slightly like expected he would get a good return this deadline or offseason. Right now I have no clue what his value is and for what teams.

[chubeyr1]

Yah, I dont think the days of old argument holds any water at all. The deadline is all about whats available. Few years back the market was flooded with 1b and 2a forwards ( cammy at the deadline ). So many skilled players were available the price went down. Last year Glencross got a 2nd and a 3rd cause the market was bare.

Hudler, I like the guy and would like to re sign him. Regardless of play this season he is probably still worth 5 million with term as a ufa. In my opinion that is too steep for us. Would he sign for less? Cammy wouldnt, dont see Hudler being any different. Hudlers getting 3rd line minutes if he is playing at all, doubt he is very happy about that.

Only reason to trade Hudler right now is part of a true hockey deal for the future. IE Drouin Rychel etc. If we are looking for the most value for him we wait till the deadline. Hoping his play improves which could make his stock go even higher.

As for Stamkos? I dont see this effecting a Hudler trade at all. Price for Stamkos will be so high only a select few teams will even contemplate a Stamkos deal. Hudler is a Camaro/Mustang, Stamkos is a Ferarri/Porsche, different buyers.

I think the biggest worry though is come trade deadline where are the Flames in the standings? If you are in a playoff spot are you dumping Hudler Russell Jones? Tough call!

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think fans should get too excited about the deadline as there's been a correction in the past few seasons and they could be looking at a 3rd round pick at best for Hudler or Jones and a 2nd round pick for Russell. You aren't going to see many teams flashing around 1st round picks at the deadline like the days of old.

The way I see it there's only a correction in the value of lottery first rounders. They will undoubtedly be protected going forward

[Itse]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Yah, I
Hudler, I like the guy and would like to re sign him. Regardless of play this season he is probably still worth 5 million with term as a ufa. In my opinion that is too steep for us. Would he sign for less? Cammy wouldnt, dont see Hudler being any different. Hudlers getting 3rd line minutes if he is playing at all, doubt he is very happy about that.

While it's always more likely a player goes for the money, it would not shock me if Hudler considered other things to be more important. Plus I don't think he's necessarily going to be offered anything crazy. Last time he was a UFA he got 4*4 million as a 28 year old after a 50 point season. This season he's a 32 year old UFA who seems to have some health issues and probably will get something like 40-50 points. At this point that 76 point season is looking very much like an anomaly.

As for Stamkos? I dont see this effecting a Hudler trade at all.

Agreed, seems unlikely it will have much effect.

If you are in a playoff spot are you dumping Hudler Russell Jones? Tough call!

I don't think it should play much part in the decision, nor do I think it will. It's pretty clear this is not a contending team as is, and Treliving has said he's more concerned with the long term.

If Jones brings you anything you trade him IMO.

With Russell I think it's clear we could use him, it's just a question of whether the price is right. Plus there's a chance the Flames get a trade offer they can't turn down. Price of defenseman can get especially crazy at trade deadline.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Interesting list posted by MMF.. Wouldn't have guessed that 10+ firsts being swapped was the norm.

Have to wonder if the lottery changes will affect this, as odds of say 12 picks moved all coming from playoff teams is pretty slim.

Definitely changed the dynamics for bubble teams looking to get in.

On topic, can't say I was disappointed at all seeing the barkov contract terms. Being honest, that's the player I had targeted going into the '13 draft, but the crowds (on both sides) that've galvanized their position that X >>>>>>> Y have a pretty extreme bias.
Seeing that contract combined with Sean's passive nature, the fact he's a "good Canadian kid", and the high profile / rising talent around him, those numbers probably get it done. The team may elect to shoot for max term with a minor (~0.5-.7 AAV) adjustment to compensate, as someone suggested, but imo term will be a bigger holdup than dollars (assuming money and his camp feel his ceiling is still a ways off).

More concerning to me is Johnnys contract ..' Hopefully he sees himself and Money in the same light as the article comparing them to Toews and Kane and we can get their sedond contracts for a similar 13M. 5.9/7.1 sounds good to me.

If Bennett's trajectory continues, what's popular opinion on his value? To me he seems like someone who will want a 1-2 year bridge to maximize his value (barring an explosive final season)

If we can't tweak a deal slightly to return a first for Hudler+, I don't see the harm in offering a one year show me that could end up providing value for both sides.

Kris and David should net some collection of 2/3/4's.

To those against stockpiling picks this year, I disagree, with the intention of using any mid rounders picked up to move up in, or acquire additional picks in the first two rounds.


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[theTrumanShow]

I am guessing Hudler to Dallas for one of their D prospects or a 1st. This draft is not deep so a late 1st is not much different than a 2nd.

Jones will be gone too, not really sure where.

I could see Russell going to the Blackhawks/Capitals as a rental for a late first as well or a pair of 2nd rounders (not sure if he would work under the cap). I could see Flames signing him as a UFA however (barring we somehow magically end up dealing 1 or all 3 of Wideman, Engelland or Smid. See no reason to sign him until the off season if these players are still here knowing the core we have. Wouldn't mind seeing one of the AHL guys step up and take his spot (Nakladal).

I could actually see Engelland being dealt for a 3/4th rounder due to his cheap salary, experience and only 1 year left on the deal.

[Toonage]

Its funny, this thread made me think about the possibility of them keeping Hudler. Something I honestly never even considered the Flames doing. Its food for thought. Never a bad idea to have established vets around to mentor, if the price was right. And if he's only going to get a return of a 3rd (just spitballing) then maybe they do consider this route.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If Hudler was playing like last year I'd be ok with a 1 or 2 year deal. But after this season you have to get an asset for him if you can and move on. He's had a terrible year.

[Flash Walken]

Isn't Bennett the only rookie on the team? Ferland too i guess?

Sounds like the team has enough vets.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

If Hudler was playing like last year I'd be ok with a 1 or 2 year deal. But after this season you have to get an asset for him if you can and move on. He's had a terrible year.

If he was playing like last year, he would be looking for 5 x $7M deal, and you could move him for a king's ransom. Because he is having a terrible season, you might be able to sign him to short-term deal. Your if...then's are backwards.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Re: Johnny's contract

That's a pretty small truck. There's probably only like 25,000 bucks in there.

No wonder Johnny wants to leave Calgary.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

That's a pretty small truck. There's probably only like 25,000 bucks in there.

No wonder Johnny wants to leave Calgary.

Wut?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by theTrumanShow

I am guessing Hudler to Dallas for one of their D prospects or a 1st. This draft is not deep so a late 1st is not much different than a 2nd.

Jones will be gone too, not really sure where.

I could see Russell going to the Blackhawks/Capitals as a rental for a late first as well or a pair of 2nd rounders (not sure if he would work under the cap). I could see Flames signing him as a UFA however (barring we somehow magically end up dealing 1 or all 3 of Wideman, Engelland or Smid. See no reason to sign him until the off season if these players are still here knowing the core we have. Wouldn't mind seeing one of the AHL guys step up and take his spot (Nakladal).

I could actually see Engelland being dealt for a 3/4th rounder due to his cheap salary, experience and only 1 year left on the deal.

I hope you are right but those returns seem a little high to me. And I would not call Engelland cheap...

Hard to imagine the Flames trading away 3 or more vets at the deadline but I hope they do, regardless of whether they creep back into the playoff race.