May 2015 Provincial Election Thread v2

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Regorium

To be fair, I truly believe Notley had the best intentions in mind.

She's a smart woman. I feel bad because she truly wanted to compromise and do something good for all of Canada, but the other premiers took advantage and made her look weak and foolish.

We'll see how she responds.

I think you're giving her a heck of the benefit of the doubt there. Though I guess it depends on what you mean by "best". I'm certainly not saying that things are playing out exactly like she wants it but it's hardly been a surprise to anybody with half a brain.

Don't forget this is her:



The person the NDP hired for the chief of staff to the Energy Minister is a lobbyist against pipelines as is the person running her communications and outreach. She isn't remotely advocating for the energy sector in Alberta with things like her declaration of Alberta being an "embarrassing cousin". The insistence of ramming through a royalty increase regardless of the economic situation along with its constant delays and lack of certainty for investment. And everybody knew that the extra 3 billion in self inflicted taxes and pain on businesses in Alberta wasn't going to sway any of the anti-oil forces, it was just going to burden the Energy sector even more.

I don't doubt that she's smart, none of this can possibly be a surprise to her.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

I can't even argue with a separatist because I don't actually know what the federal government does for us anymore. It seems all they do is take.

Maybe the solution is to come a few votes away from separation? It worked for Quebec, and now they can be as big of ####s as they want and the rest of the country will just stand pat and allow it, in fear that the Quebecois will get all ambitious again.

Or has it always been this way and we're just hopelessly screwed?

You know, if I thought there was a really easy way to diminish the east-west divide in this country, I would be making sure to capitalize on it. I guess the eastern half of this country doesn't want to get along with us.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Regorium

To be fair, I truly believe Notley had the best intentions in mind. She worked with the other premiers and they probably said "look, if you can get some climate strategy worked out, we'll work on our constituents and get this done."

Notley held up her end of the bargain, and the other premiers stabbed her in the back.

It doesn't matter what age you are when you finally lose that naivete, but I think it will happen quickly with her after what happened. She's a smart woman. I feel bad because she truly wanted to compromise and do something good for all of Canada, but the other premiers took advantage and made her look weak and foolish.

We'll see how she responds.

Dude not a chance.

The people opposing the pipelines aren't strangers they are her colleagues. The people she worked shoulder to shoulder with before the election to oppose anything oil related. Her team that runs the government came directly from the same groups.

Nobody thought pipelines would be approved. No one ever intended to allow them to be approved.

When they get together and talk about Oil projects it goes something like this

(Just always wanted to use that)

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

The actual numbers are a bit lower.

A teacher retiring today at the top of the pay scale would have a five-year average annual salary of about $95,000. Their pension with 35 years of pensionable service is $50,298.87 a year. That's 52.9% of their pre-retirement income. With just 30 years of pensionable service it's $43,113.12, which is 45.4% of pre-retirement income.

Perhaps once you take into account that a teacher making $95,000 a year pays about $13,000 into the fund, that takes their taxable salary down to $82,000. That gets the numbers a little closer to 70%, I suppose.

Where did you get the $95k from? Top of the salary band is $101,331 per this site. That doesn't even include the 1% of annual salary teachers received this school year as a bonus.

I believe the 70%, which is the published amount teachers receive as a pension, factors in CPP.

[malcolmk14]

I just took a stab at it. It's actually $99,740 for the last five years. This was the first year any part of the pay scale went over $100k.

In any case, if you factor in CPP, you're definitely approaching that 70% number.

[Locke]

Okay, its a lot.

The point being is that society cannot afford to pay people 70% of a very competitive working salary to not be working in addition to paying 100% of that salary to the people that are working.

That equation doesnt balance.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, its a lot.

The point being is that society cannot afford to pay people 70% of a very competitive working salary to not be working in addition to paying 100% of that salary to the people that are working.

That equation doesnt balance.

Well, we could afford to pay it if teachers still retired at 65 and died at 75. But when people retire at 55 and live to 85...

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I guarantee you he has collected way over $500,000. A teacher's pension is 70% of the average of their last five years of salary, adjusted up for inflation. A teacher right now in their last five years of work are making $100,000. Let's go really low on our estimate and say your dad has been making $60,000 per year since retiring, though (even thought it's likely $70k/year). That's $900,000, which is an absolutely incredible guaranteed pension after a relatively short career.

My grandma was a teacher. She's 95 right now. She retired in her 50s as well. In today's dollars, she's collected about $2,400,000 if we said she's been making $60k per year. If we want to call it $70k per year, she's made closer to $3,000,000.

I don't see those pension amount as sustainable given the young age at which you can start collecting them and how long people live.

At the end of the day, if employees are contributing far less than they are drawing, the pensions are unsustainable and unfair to taxpayers.

Well it's not i have seen his bank statements...so based on that I have given a fair estimate...but i sure hope you're right!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Well, we could afford to pay it if teachers still retired at 65 and died at 75. But when people retire at 55 and live to 85...

Even then, as I recall the numbers are something like needing 30%-40% of your working salary for income when you're retired.

Even if those actuarial work/death ages worked out at the percentage of salary level I still not sure its a self-sustaining model.

And to make everything worse on top of all of that they retire and then keep working, generating their top-end salary but they're obviously no longer paying into the pension fund because they're collecting and they're keeping someone else out who would be paid a lower salary but would be contributing.

And why wouldnt you? You get to keep making your top salary with fewer deductions, the fact that it screws up an already broken system doesnt seem to factor in.

The whole thing is an unmitigated disaster.

[Resolute 14]

The problem with Notley's "best intentions" is that they are the best intentions of an ideologue, and are utterly disconnected from reality. Her best intentions most certainly are not what is best for Alberta in this regard.

Dippers liked to complain about the PCs being in bed with the oil industry. Yet last night, whomever was manning Notley's twitter account was parroting the Pembina Institute's playbook, even tagging Pembina in the comments. Pembina has received millions in funding from Tides and Rockefeller.

Rachel Notley is in bed with a group that is funded by American interests working to destroy Alberta's economy.

That is shameful incompetence on her part.

[peter12]

Notley has to realize that the fantasy of an NDP-Alberta is over, and if her government doesn't get at least one pipeline built, they will never form another government ever again.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

Notley has to realize that the fantasy of an NDP-Alberta is over, and if her government doesn't get at least one pipeline built, they will never form another government ever again.

They could build 20 pipelines and they're almost certainly never forming another government again.

[CaptainCrunch]

On top of that she broke one of the oldest rules, at least in sales. Don't brag about something unless you have a signature.

She stood on stage with Quebec's premiere bragging about how her environmental initiatives would pretty much guarantee the flow of product through Quebec.

Now she's had the rug pulled out from under her.

And yes her twitter response compared to the responses of Jean, McIver, Clark and Kenney leaves a lot to be desired.

On another note, I am pissed off that this province has basically been blockaded by the rest of this country.

I would hope that our Prime Minister would step up with a statement, but he was too busy killing pipeline projects of his own with the policy letter concerning tanker traffic on the West Coast.

Seriously I think everyone should boycott products coming from BC and Quebec. I think that Alberta firms should cancel contracts with businesses in those provinces as well.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

They could build 20 pipelines and they're almost certainly never forming another government again.

I don't think that's true. I, as a libertarian/fiscal conservative, was certainly prepared to give them a chance, and hoped they would hew to the middle and look to the Saskies next door for guidance. I didn't vote for them, but I was open-minded enough to take a wait-and-see approach. However, when you govern to the "lefty idiot" stereotype, there is not much to be done... It's like they are governing from the starting point of "we have 4 years to turn Alberta into Sweden... with a dollop of Brazil"...

[Flash Walken]

Good lord, the bellyaching in this thread.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I don't think that's true. I, as a libertarian/fiscal conservative, was certainly prepared to give them a chance, and hoped they would hew to the middle and look to the Saskies next door for guidance. I didn't vote for them, but I was open-minded enough to take a wait-and-see approach. However, when you govern to the "lefty idiot" stereotype, there is not much to be done... It's like they are governing from the starting point of "we have 4 years to turn Alberta into Sweden... with a dollop of Brazil"...

I probably should have elaborated a bit more. But I'm assuming the PC/WR split ends, and if it does I just don't see how the NDP will ever get enough seats to form another government even if they do a decent job. They won how they did because everything came together right, not sure that happens again but you never know I suppose.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Good lord, the bellyaching in this thread.

Just a natural reaction to having idiots in charge.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I probably should have elaborated a bit more. But I'm assuming the PC/WR split ends, and if it does I just don't see how the NDP will ever get enough seats to form another government even if they do a decent job. They won how they did because everything came together right, not sure that happens again but you never know I suppose.

I think that if they moved to the middle (traditional "Liberal" territory), they had a chance to hold enough urban votes to have a shot. Edmonton is a solid base, and I think Calgary would have rewarded competence sufficiently to have a shot. I may be wrong - I don't claim to have a finger on the political pulse in the City. But, having elected and re-elected Nenshi I think suggests a certain open-mindedness...

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

They could build 20 pipelines and they're almost certainly never forming another government again.

If they manage to get one of TMEP or Energy East in the ground, then as far as I am concerned, all is forgiven.

BTW of course I know that they won't.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Good lord, the bellyaching in this thread.

I assume the irony of this post was deliberate?