Thoughts on Treliving so far? - Page 7 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Like Steve Staios and Ales Kotalik?

Sure if you want to think that. (Kind of ironic considering Feaster's 2nd best move was similar, trading for Ladislav Smid; his best being Erixon for two 2nd and Horak)

But also :

Kiprusoff for a 2nd round pick

Daymond Langkow for Denis Gauthier and Oleg Saprykin

Tanguay for Jordan Leopold and two 2nd

Huselius for Montador and Dustin Johner

Bouwmeester for Jordan Leopold (may have thrown in other pieces)

I also like Marcus Nilson for a 2nd, Niemenen for a (4th?), Chris Simon as a playoff rental. His worst deals IMO were trading for Jokinen for Kotalik trade, Phaneuf trade, Staois trade (all 3 within 72 hours, not sure what happened those 72 hours) as well as trading Ference and Kobasew for Stuart, not because of value as Stuart was a premier D but because I think that really changed the culture of the team.

Which deals did Feaster do that were wins like that? His best decisions were signing Hudler and the Erixon trade. After that a few good minor deals but nothing great. His mistakes though.... oh boy were they bad, like Mike Milbury and Kevin Lowe bad. Almost made me give up on hockey, and I was a fan since 1997.

Wiggum_PI · 01-20-2016, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I would disagree. For every bad trade Darryl made (Phaneuf nightmare), Feaster upped him (Traded our top pairing defenseman, and added a 2nd round pick, for a guy we lost on waivers in Byron and the other who sucked and is now in the AHL in Butler). Darryl might have put us in "cap hell" with guys like Sarich (who Feaster re-signed), but Feaster left behind Wideman at $5M and Jones and $4M (to Hagman's... $3M I think it was); the only reason we weren't at the cap limit is because we sucked too much. I don't give Feaster credit for drafting because he openly admitted he didn't watch any junior games, and I think he said he didn't even watch the WJC; Gaudreau was drafted during the Feaster regime, but Brodie was drafted during Darryl's. The difference is Darryl made trades for good NHLers, Feaster traded good NHLers for magic beans. Good thing he was left with Tod Button to bring in prospects so that Feaster looked like he was "good at scouting" even though he did not scout any junior games.

And that wasn't even the worst to me; in the media, he was just a nightmare. It was embarrassing, almost (with enough time, just as bad) as the Oilers. He actually went media silent for months after the ROR fiasco, and its my own speculation that he was gag-ordered by Flames ownership, and Brian Burke brought on shortly after to provide some leadership to this front office circus. I think the Flames realized we were on the brink of being as embarrassing as the Oilers, thus Burke was brought on to evaluate the organization and point it in a respectable direction.

The best thing about Feaster was that he was so bad he accelerated the rebuild... if he didn't swing and miss so many times, we might have forever been stuck in a "win now mode" ... he did not want to rebuild, he openly mocked Edmonton and said "if they want to rebuild, they can find another GM for it" ... but was so bad at his job we ended up rebuilding anyways ... thankfully we got 2 great draft picks in Monahan and Bennett, thank god he failed at the ROR attempt.

What about the whole Olli Jokinen debacle? Sutter trades Lombardi, Prust, and 1st round pick (13th overall) to acquire him. He then trades him a year later to the Rangers for Kotalik and Higgins. Then he re-acquires him in free agency, but Kotalik and Higgins are still on the roster. Another good one was Aaron Johnson and a 3rd round pick to the Oilers for Steve Staios.

Sutter also fired Mike Keenan, who made the playoffs the previous 2 seasons, and replaced him with his brother, who never made the playoffs in his 3 years of coaching.

Feaster definitely had some blunders, but I don't think they were any worse than what Darryl did in his final years as GM of the Flames.

Strange Brew · 01-20-2016, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

How much do you think guys who have the capability of scoring 10+ goals and 50 points go for in the UFA market? 5+ million. That's the going rate, take it or leave it. Obviously some of you wouldn't take it, that much is clear. But to call him overpaid? He's paid market value. I know some of you don't like that power play specialist 2nd pairing d-men make that much as UFAs but that's the reality of the NHL.

Yes, he's declined, that was to be expected. His deal was market value for UFAs.

I would question whether he is effective at either role judging by the quality of our power play. When I last looked he was the 30th highest paid d-man in the league. So not sure his salary is the going rate for second pairing d-men. Especially since he was signed 3 years ago.

IMO, smart (and winning) GM's by and large stay away from big ticket UFA signings. That is true in any cap league.

AltaGuy · 01-20-2016, 05:34 PM

Yeah - he was pretty good for the first few years (-ish) - but no trade after about '07 was very good, and I give Feaster credit for undoing a lot of mess.

But, like you, I have my axe to grind - I hated Sutter as GM after the Phaneuf trade fiasco.

Frank MetaMusil · 01-20-2016, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Like Steve Staios and Ales Kotalik?

Sjostrom, Mayers, Babchuk, Ivanans, Stone, Hagman......

The list goes on.

Sutter had a ton of indefensible moves, including hiring his brother.

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

What about the whole Olli Jokinen debacle? Sutter trades Lombardi, Prust, and 1st round pick (13th overall) to acquire him. He then trades him a year later to the Rangers for Kotalik and Higgins. Then he re-acquires him in free agency, but Kotalik and Higgins are still on the roster. Another good one was Aaron Johnson and a 3rd round pick to the Oilers for Steve Staios.

Sutter also fired Mike Keenan, who made the playoffs the previous 2 seasons, and replaced him with his brother, who never made the playoffs in his 3 years of coaching.

Feaster definitely had some blunders, but I don't think they were any worse than what Darryl did in his final years as GM of the Flames.

Those 72 hours I will agree with you. No idea what happened then.

Jokinenen, at the time he was acquired, was one of the top scorers in the league. Almost everyone thought it was a clear cut Flames win.

Firing Mike Keenan was fixing the biggest mistake he made, worst then the Phaneuf trade. Some of our players (Regehr and Sarich) openly talked about how bad of a coach he was. Brent Sutter, under the NJD, made the playoffs every year and set a franchise 51 wins. Not sure why you think he never made the NHL playoffs.

AltaGuy · 01-20-2016, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Those 72 hours I will agree with you. No idea what happened then.

Jokinenen, at the time he was acquired, was one of the top scorers in the league. Almost everyone thought it was a clear cut Flames win.

Firing Mike Keenan was fixing the biggest mistake he made, worst then the Phaneuf trade. Some of our players (Regehr and Sarich) openly talked about how bad of a coach he was. Brent Sutter, under the NJD, made the playoffs every year and set a franchise 51 wins. Not sure why you think he never made the NHL playoffs.

Yes, of all of Sutter's bad mistakes, Keenan was the worst. I will never forgive Sutter for using three years of Iggy and Kipper's primes on that trainwreck. (Wingers high? Are you #&$ing me? Lol)

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Yeah - he was pretty good for the first few years (-ish) - but no trade after about '07 was very good, and I give Feaster credit for undoing a lot of mess.

But, like you, I have my axe to grind - I hated Sutter as GM after the Phaneuf trade fiasco.

What mess did Feaster do?

Trade a 2nd round pick and Regehr to dump Kotalik's contract? (After Kotalik was traded, it was announced he was leaving the NHL anyways. Guess Feaster didn't do his homework)

Hagman? Bought out.

Sarich? Feaster actually re-signed him.

Staois? Replaced by EDIT: Shane O'Brien

I'm too lazy to look but I'm pretty sure everyone thought the Bouwmeester and Jokinen deals were wins.

Higgins, Hagman, Staois I believe had 1-2 years of dead weight anchors. Feaster? Almost left us with a 12 year anchor. Left us with a 5 year anchor in Wideman (still have this year and next). The total number of dollars left of dead weight actually equal to what Feaster left Burke and Treliving, it just doesn't look as bad because he delt away Iginla, Bouwmeester and Regehr for what looks like the total of the 3 now amounts to Poirer, Klimchuk and Agostini.

Frank MetaMusil · 01-20-2016, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Yes, of all of Sutter's bad mistakes, Keenan was the worst. I will never forgive Sutter for using three years of Iggy and Kipper's primes on that trainwreck. (Wingers high? Are you #&$ing me? Lol)

Meh, I'll take Keenan's 13 playoff games over Brent's 0.

Can't blame Mike for the devastating injuries in 08/09 either. I've probably posted this 500 times already though.

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Sjostrom, Mayers, Babchuk, Ivanans, Stone, Hagman......

The list goes on.

Sutter had a ton of indefensible moves, including hiring his brother.

So half of those players listed are basically in 2 of the trades in an entire 7 year tenure. Well done.

Wiggum_PI · 01-20-2016, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Those 72 hours I will agree with you. No idea what happened then.

Jokinenen, at the time he was acquired, was one of the top scorers in the league. Almost everyone thought it was a clear cut Flames win.

Firing Mike Keenan was fixing the biggest mistake he made, worst then the Phaneuf trade. Some of our players (Regehr and Sarich) openly talked about how bad of a coach he was. Brent Sutter, under the NJD, made the playoffs every year and set a franchise 51 wins. Not sure why you think he never made the NHL playoffs.

Mike Keenan moved to the KHL, and won a title coaching the Metallurg Magnitogorsk in 2014. Brent Sutter went on to coach team Canada at the worlds, where the team didn't even win a medal. He's now back in the minors where he belongs. Keenan is a better coach then Brent Sutter.

I also never said Brent Sutter didn't make the playoffs, I said he never made the playoffs in his 3 years of coaching the Flames.

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Yes, of all of Sutter's bad mistakes, Keenan was the worst. I will never forgive Sutter for using three years of Iggy and Kipper's primes on that trainwreck. (Wingers high? Are you #&$ing me? Lol)

Keenan retired on the job. Forget that, Regehr and Sarich actually said Keenan wouldn't decide on practice times until the morning, and basically practice was whenever Keenan decided to get out of bed, then would text everyone that practice was in 1 hour. What a joke.

Frank MetaMusil · 01-20-2016, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

So half of those players listed are basically in 2 of the trades in an entire 7 year tenure. Well done.

I was simply listing garbage on the roster that Sutter acquired when he was GM. Thanks.

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I was simply listing garbage on the roster that Sutter acquired when he was GM. Thanks.

Well you listed only the bad players. Thats like listing Smid, Derek Smith, Joey MacDonald, Ben Street, Tim Jackman and Shane O'Brien.

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Mike Keenan moved to the KHL, and won a title coaching the Metallurg Magnitogorsk in 2014. Brent Sutter went on to coach team Canada at the worlds, where the team didn't even win a medal. He's now back in the minors where he belongs. Keenan is a better coach then Brent Sutter.

I also never said Brent Sutter didn't make the playoffs, I said he never made the playoffs in his 3 years of coaching the Flames.

I'm not going to argue that Brent Sutter was crap (you never said 3 years of coaching with the Flames, but I understand what you mean now; no biggie) but Keenan was a total gong show. Brent Sutter they just looked flat out dead. During the Keenan era they would suck for 55 minutes in a game, but we had so much talent that it would only take 5 minutes for us to score and bunch and win the game. Between the 2, at least Brent Sutter tried, he just failed. Keenan wasted prime years of Iginla, Regehr and Kiprusoff and Phaneuf went from a Calder finalist to complete crap.

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Meh, I'll take Keenan's 13 playoff games over Brent's 0.

But you wouldn't take Darryl's 6 playoffs out of 7 years (one Stanley Cup finals birth) over Feaster's 0 for 3 (including worst record in franchise history) ?

Frank MetaMusil · 01-20-2016, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Well you listed only the bad players. Thats like listing Smid, Derek Smith, Joey MacDonald, Ben Street, Tim Jackman and Shane O'Brien.

Darryl signed Jackman as well.

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Darryl signed Jackman as well.

I believe Darryl first signed him on a 2 year deal (1st year, article from the Vancouver Sun in March 2011 named him the NHL's "bang for the buck"), but Feaster re-signed him for another 2 years (re-signed just before the trade deadline IIRC).

Frank MetaMusil · 01-20-2016, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I believe Darryl first signed him on a 2 year deal (1st year, article from the Vancouver Sun in March 2011 named him the NHL's "bang for the buck"), but Feaster re-signed him for another 2 years (re-signed just before the trade deadline IIRC).

Correct. So when you listed more garbage, who was the GM when said garbage was acquired?

Phanuthier · 01-20-2016, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Yeah - he was pretty good for the first few years (-ish) - but no trade after about '07 was very good, and I give Feaster credit for undoing a lot of mess.

But, like you, I have my axe to grind - I hated Sutter as GM after the Phaneuf trade fiasco.

I forgot about another mess left by Feaster (akin to Hagman) - Shane O'Brien. Put on waivers and bought.

So Kotalik, Hagman, Staois (total salary $7M I believe) was left for Feaster, O'Brien, Jones and Wideman (total salary : $11M) left by Feaster.

(Note: I believe Higgins left as a UFA)