Post Media layoffs

[SuperMatt18]

The other issue for newspapers is they weren't able to monetize some of the new forms of media like twitter.

Pretty much every reporter is posting live details of any sports event, press conference, crime trial, breaking news, etc while the event happens.

These reporters that are providing these updates are usually employees of the newspapers but while they are getting paid to do that work - they also aren't generating any revenue for the newspaper.

Why do I need to read an article of what happened in your newspaper the next day, when the exact same reporter gave me a second by second play by play of what was happening while it was still happening.

[burn_this_city]

Twitter doesn't even generate revenue for twitter. Everyone outside of cable news networks are struggling to monetize their content.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by saillias

This is a position being used by a lot of journalists but it's insinuating that the print journalists are the only ones doing the grunt work, which isn't true.

Who else is doing the grunt work?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sorry, it has everything to do with younger readers not reading paper newspapers and no readers showing a willingness to pay for online subscriptions. That, and the collapse of newspaper's revenue model when classified ads went to kajiji and the like.

But WHY?

All sorts of different media has been able to adjust to a pay method. Spotify, Netflix, Steam etc, and they all have competition.

People are clearly willing to pay for content. Are they willing to pay for terrible content? Absolutely not. Is the majority of what appears in the today's majors good content? No.

Dan Carlin does ok releasing periodic podcasts that are well researched and informative. He releases them for free, but people are often willing to pay for the content. They are willing to pay because of the quality of the work.

The problem is that investigative journalists are no longer employed by major newspapers, and I'm not prepared to pay money for George Johnson's writeup of the game when Bingo and Kent Wilson will give me a comparable product for free, especially when there are 82+ games a year.

Millennial purchasing trends are that Millennials will spend their dollars on less conspicuous consumption and more on value added products. Millennials are willing to pay more for a better product, more so than their parents.

If you want independent journalism you have to fund it. Which means giving a ton more money to CBC and likely developing more grants to fund independent investigative journalists.

Uncomfortable, I know.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Mainstream media may have its biases, but if you think the alternatives don't, then you're kidding yourself. Waving the flag for all U.S. foreign policy is simplistic and biased. But so is painting all U.S. foreign policy in the worst light - which is exactly what these alternative sources do. And even alternative media is better served by professional journalists with expertise and a broad range of contacts. These alternative outlets need some source of revenue to operate, just as every business does. But online readers refuse to pay.

It isn't as simplistic as you are painting it to be, and these are hardly basement bloggers posting up rumors and half-truths in order to serve some personal vendetta or support some anti-western propaganda.

There are lots of very experienced, talented and respected journalists writing for many different media streams. I would think that journalists like John Pilger offer a differing viewpoint that at the very least helps you gain more insight into a particular event that is being reported on, and you can then make up your own mind about it through your own critical thinking. And yes, he (and many others like him in these alternative media outlets) are actual journalists with often decades of investigative journalism behind them, and they stand by their work. Again, these are not basement bloggers that are only self-serving, or the whacko, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists (these make me cross my eyes until it hurts from outright stupidity and craziness). These are actual respected journalists who just refuse to tow some company line.

Is that to say that one should shun all mainstream media? No. You get a different perspective. The problem arises when you 100% this perspective as the real 'truth' behind the story, and don't bother to get any more information so that you can use your own critical thinking skills to arrive at your own conclusions (and when I say 'your' - I am not directly implying you CliffFletcher, just the public in general).

Read both viewpoints. Decide for yourself what is the truth, and how you should feel about that truth. Don't just believe the garbage that is trotted out everywhere like the "Liberation of Iraq".

Again, these are REAL journalists, with their face, name and credentials available to everyone, and who are bound by the same laws governing everyone else - including the same consequences for slander. I think this is already way too long and distracting from the intention of this thread, so I will just cut it off here, but my point is that one simply does not get the full story out of mainstream media as the only source.

Edit: Oh, and they absolutely do write up positive things about US foreign policy when they deem to - they are not a hate group. They are just government critics, and they write critical pieces on all governments as stories come.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Who else is doing the grunt work?

I'll put it this way. Were Johnson and Sportak the only guys who cover the Flames? Is there a vacuum? Are there other journalists and freelancers going to practices finding out who is playing with who on line rushes and spreading the info out? Absolutely. The medium itself hasn't been lost. The niche being phased out is the story on a printed publication.

Look at Darren Haynes or Aaron Vickers or Pat Steinberg.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by saillias

I'll put it this way. Were Johnson and Sportak the only guys who cover the Flames? Is there a vacuum? Are there other journalists and freelancers going to practices finding out who is playing with who on line rushes and spreading the info out? Absolutely. The medium itself hasn't been lost. The niche being phased out is the story on a printed publication.

Look at Darren Haynes or Aaron Vickers or Pat Steinberg.

One worry that I have, and that you actually highlighted in your choices, is that independent voices are being snuffed out...the three people that you mentioned either in part work for the Flames, are have employers that have large contractual agreements with the Flames. I am not saying that any of the three are toeing a company line, but at least my perception is that there is some self editing, at the very least in subject matter that is pursued for stories.

[Erick Estrada]

I see Sportak did the Flames recap in the Sun today. Wasn't he let go before the game?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Julio

One worry that I have, and that you actually highlighted in your choices, is that independent voices are being snuffed out...the three people that you mentioned either in part work for the Flames, are have employers that have large contractual agreements with the Flames. I am not saying that any of the three are toeing a company line, but at least my perception is that there is some self editing, at the very least in subject matter that is pursued for stories.

Darren Haynes writes stuff I actually read. No offense to Sportak or Johnson, they occasionally had good material, but I don't need a game write up from them. I get better ones on flames.com, Calgarypuck, NHL.com, Puckdaddy, DownGoesBrown.

Beat writing is kind of a dead art. It's not like it was in the 80s and 90s where this was the only window into the flames. I mean, the flames video and upload their own content after the game.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If you want independent journalism you have to fund it. Which means giving a ton more money to CBC and likely developing more grants to fund independent investigative journalists.

Uncomfortable, I know.

Even those are traditional sources. Things like

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/sports/hockey/

Have given me much more insight and value in terms of sports reporting and interviews than any of the traditional sources ever have.

In terms of investigative reporting, boots on the ground in conflict-zone reporting, etc. VICE news (originally Canadian) has tons of that stuff and they are agile and adaptable and free. You can even pick up their thick and lush magazine for free at various shops in town.

If these guys that were let go from Post Media are actually talented and connected, they would be wise to align themselves with new online media and get wider audience than local.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I see Sportak did the Flames recap in the Sun today. Wasn't he let go before the game?

He would have filed the story last night.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I see Sportak did the Flames recap in the Sun today. Wasn't he let go before the game?

He said it was the last game he'd cover

[Erick Estrada]

So who's doing them from now on in? They just going to contract them out to freelancers I assume?

[Freeway]

My understanding is that the Sun/Herald will have 1 body on the road going forward. it may just be that way for this trip.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Darren Haynes writes stuff I actually read. No offense to Sportak or Johnson, they occasionally had good material, but I don't need a game write up from them. I get better ones on flames.com, Calgarypuck, NHL.com, Puckdaddy, DownGoesBrown.

Beat writing is kind of a dead art. It's not like it was in the 80s and 90s where this was the only window into the flames. I mean, the flames video and upload their own content after the game.

Exactly. I don't read for example the Herald Flames coverage at all anymore, because they are basically just regurgitating what I already know and what happened in the game. We've moved past the point where it has any meaning. It was just clutter.

It's a dying business. I'm sure they are excellent writers and mentors and all that, but I won't even notice tbh.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So who's doing them from now on in? They just going to contract them out to freelancers I assume?

Scott Cruickshank is still around.

They're going to have one article and then the editor will modify it for a Sun and a Herald audience.

[Shazam]

George Johnson is often attributed in convincing Flames' management to fire Terry Crisp. Not sure if that's true or not.

Article readers have never really paid for newspapers. Classified and job postings (A one week 1/16 two color job ad in the CH was $450 back in the day) was the real revenue generator and was what paid the writers' salaries.

A few months ago I found a CH from the late nineties. What was striking was the lack of in-page ads and the mega thick classified section.

This is an industry that doesn't even know where they got their money from. No wonder they're at death's door.

[greentree]

Originally Posted by Shazam

This is an industry that doesn't even know where they got their money from. No wonder they're at death's door.

That's a weird thing to say, and wrong.
Newspapers--all print media--rely on advertising and paid circulation for revenue. They always have. But those two revenue streams are greatly diminished thanks to a) traditional ad buyers having left and b) the Internet.
Classified ad revenue vanished many years ago and it will never return. Newspaper classifieds haven't been in the conversation for a loooong time. They are history.
None of this is a mystery.
How to make newspapers work, when the big national campaign advertisers i.e.: automotive and banking industries are no longer interested in print advertising (they left after the 2008 crisis)? When online advertising is dirt cheap, maybe one-fifth the price (or less) of a print ad?
These are the real mysteries, that no one has managed to solve.
BUT: Pick up a weekend metro broadsheet i.e. Herald, Vancouver Sun, Ottawa Citizen, Mtl Gazette. They are fat. There is some hope, there. The national dailies...not so much.

[curves2000]

I am not advocating that change doesn't happen or that the newspaper model is the way of the future but the information coming from an NHL broadcast WILL BE changing, and not for the better in my opinion.

Someone here mentioned the pre-post game coverage of the game being written up by CP members. I agree that the writes ups are fantastic but a lot of the information is coming from sources on the ground.

All the news we do get on the Flames games is coming from the likes of the beat reporters, Roger Millions, Derek Wills, Pat Steinberg, Darren Haynes etc.

A prime example might be the radio broadcast. How many more years are we going to have a TV and radio broadcast crew? In all honesty? In Toronto, the largest hockey market there was a scenario earlier this year where the decision had been made to have the radio crew broadcast ROAD GAMES from the ACC while watching a tv monitor. The idea was the save on airfare, travel, hotels and meals. Public uproar caused them to change their minds but you can see which way the business is trendying.

You can just see it with all the tweets and disbelief people in the industry have with this whole scenario over the last few years. They know things are changing for EVERYBODY.

Even the top guys in hockey like Elliot Friedman, TSN's Bob Mckenezie etc get their news from trusted sources. They aren't going to be reporting on trades, injuries and team information from some blogger fan site.

The world changes, I get it and I am not against it for things but too many people have this notion that since "technology" changes things that it makes it better or cool. Not always the case.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Even those are traditional sources. Things like

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/sports/hockey/

Have given me much more insight and value in terms of sports reporting and interviews than any of the traditional sources ever have.

In terms of investigative reporting, boots on the ground in conflict-zone reporting, etc. VICE news (originally Canadian) has tons of that stuff and they are agile and adaptable and free. You can even pick up their thick and lush magazine for free at various shops in town.

If these guys that were let go from Post Media are actually talented and connected, they would be wise to align themselves with new online media and get wider audience than local.

Vice was great when it first came out but they seem to have too many ideological hipster writers on their staff to have any sort of independent reporting on subjects like climate change and railing against Oil and Gas. They still produce some good documentaries but most of their print journalism is garbage.