Thoughts on Treliving so far?

[PepsiFree]

Wow. Some people are pretty negative.

I'd go with a B+

His "bad" moves haven't hurt the team (personally the goalie "fiasco" has been embarrassingly overblown) and his good moves (Hamilton trade, the contracts he's signed top players for whether Gio or other) have been really positive.

Most of all, we have to look at him in comparison with the rest of the league. He's easily a top five GM right now and the best GM hired around the same time (Benning, Chiarelli, etc).

Great hire. Not perfect, but nobody I'm sitting here wishing we got instead.

[FlamesAddiction]

I said "C".

I am satisfied, but not impressed.

I don't see "C" as a bad thing though. Being an "A" or "B" is extremely hard to do, especially in just a couple of seasons. For me, the jury is still out on some of the moves.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by troutman

I dismiss it. The team in front of the goalies was giving up too many Grade A chances. Should not matter to a pro goalie that the 3rd goalie is in the Press Box or Stockton.

Relative to where they were last year, the team had been giving up less scoring chances and less high-danger chances. (but still below league average) The difference through Oct, Nov were the stinkers. Byfuglien buzzer beater on Ramo, Dale Weise hat trick on Ortio, etc.

[polak]

C.

The good:

Hamilton trade
2nds for Baertschi and Glencross
Drafting

The bad:

I didn't mind the Gio contract now but it looks like he has immediately regressed from Norris level to #2 after signing it which sucks. A lot. In that vein, he also took a risk on Hiller and Ramo which looks to have backfired a bit even though Ramo has saved his ass by improving as the season went on.

All of his UFA signings besides Frolik have been meh at best to utter team debilitating garbage at worst. His coaching staff blows chunks.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Just spitballin here but hasn't the goaltending worked out in the end?

And in the end you mean ending the season for us before it even had a chance to start? Setting us up for a month of uncertainty and losses crippled our playoff hopes. You don't go into a season hoping that the goaltending will sort itself out in the long run. You do, you're probably going to be tied with the Oilers for last in the division and near the bottom of the league.

I mean wasn't signing Ramo actually the best course of action after they lost out on the big goalies on the trade market?

You could come to that conclusion, if you believed the Flames were in on the two guys. I never believed that to be the case. I was under the impression that Treliving was looking to dump Hiller first, and not focus on bringing in another guy prior to that.

I'm sick of this talk about the three head goalie monster. When you say that you are saying that you wish the Flames overpaid for Jones or Talbot. Just be honest about it.

Swing and a miss. Nice attempt to put words in my mouth, but I have never suggested the Flames pursue Jones or Talbot. The opposite actually. I was dead set against pulling an Oiler and bringing in a backup from a much better team whose success was likely built on the team in front of him.

Next time you complain about the goaltending saying something like "Treliving really gets a bad mark for not addressing the three-headed goalie monster instead say this "Treliving really should have overpaid for Jones or Talbot."

Next time don't dream up things that a poster has never suggestedand try and stay focused on the issue at hand. Trelivings desire for another goaltender is irrelevant on the fact that he created a bad situation by having too many goaltenders heading to camp and was indecisive about addressing the issue after the fact.

[CroFlames]

I voted B as well. I think to get an A, you have to construct a regular playoff team. To get A+, you need to be a championship caliber team. Championship caliber teams are teams that you can realistically expect to win a Cup that year. Caps, Hawks, Stars, maybe LA & St Louis.

Brad has made some good moves and 2 or 3 great ones. Brodie extension, Hamilton acquisition and the Gio extension. I'm not sure how people can already call the contract an anchor since he's on pace for about 55 points, and is a premier defender and a leader. He's made other good deals like getting Nakladal who appears that he can play in the NHL. Snagging Rasmus and Kylington at the draft I think were good choices for eventual succession planning and/or trading.

Brad gets way too much criticism for his other moves because I think people don't take into account the context in which the deals were made. Some fan favorite deals to whine about:

1. Bollig - OMG why do we need him?! If you remember at the time, the Flames barely had enough NHLers on the roster. They needed someone, anyone, to come in and play a regular shift, or be willing to sit upstairs if the tweeners broke in.

2. Raymond - same deal. We needed NHLers and he was willing to come over. The potential existed for some goal scoring. My problem now is that Raymond was kept on for too long and should have been showed the door. That's a big minus for me in grading Brad.

3. Engelland - again, the same type of deal. The team had no direction at the time and the GM didn't know what he had yet. He needed NHLers to fill roster spots. Overpaid? He's a UFA signing. That's how those things work. I have personally been surprised at Engelland's reliability. He's been more reliable than other d-men at times, including the big guns (except Brodie).

4. Overpaid goalies - this is again phooey. When Ramo was done, the Flames only had 1 NHL goalie in HIller, and weren't confident in him. Rightly so, as it turns out. Ramo, according to rumors, had an offer or two to play elsewhere, so Brad had to increase the dollars. On a 1 year deal, the dollars don't matter. I think the 3-headed goalie monster was a huge gaffe on Brad's part though, and in my opinion, a huge contributing factor to the bad start.

5. Waiving Byron - yeah, Byron stepped his game up after being claimed. But many players step it up after they get a fresh start, or the proverbial wake up call. We all knew what Byron brought, and it wasn't a lot. Jooris' forchecking and goals last year made Byron expendable.


I'm pretty OK with what Brad has done so far and I'd grade him B.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Just spitballin here but hasn't the goaltending worked out in the end?

I mean wasn't signing Ramo actually the best course of action after they lost out on the big goalies on the trade market?

The alternative was running with two demonstrably worse goalies in Hiller and Ortio for the whole season. It should be emphasized that much to the chagrin of most delusional fans that Ortio is not a very good goalie right now. And would a Hiller driven net really have delivered the Flames from salvation any more than they are right now?

I'm sick of this talk about the three head goalie monster. When you say that you are saying that you wish the Flames overpaid for Jones or Talbot. Just be honest about it.

Next time you complain about the goaltending saying something like "Treliving really gets a bad mark for not addressing the three-headed goalie monster instead say this "Treliving really should have overpaid for Jones or Talbot."

Not sure how much it worked out. You could gotten a guy like Enroth or Neuvirth for much cheaper and likely had equal or better goaltending to what the Flames have gotten this year.

[ResAlien]

We're still hand wringing over the overblown 3 goalie situation eh? Super. If that and waiving a bottom 6 player are his worst moves then Treliving is killing it as a GM. This isn't NHL 16, a rebuild takes more than a few trade offers with a 4th round pick to sweeten the deal, even if we DO include Hanowski.

No anchor contracts, moved the franchise in the right direction, developing and drafting well, good trades, what's the problem?

[Zulu29]

I gave him a B, nobody is going to be perfect but I think the good far outweigh any questionable ones. I'm looking forward to the draft when he'll likely have a top 5 pick and hopefully a few extra seconds from trades at the deadlines. Hopefully he can "skin" a few teams like he did with Boston.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Not sure how much it worked out. You could gotten a guy like Enroth or Neuvirth for much cheaper and likely had equal or better goaltending to what the Flames have gotten this year.

Agreed - and further to that, you wouldn't have both your goalies playing out the final year in their deals, leaving us in a bind for next season. We entered this season in a no-win scenario...if they play outstanding, you'll have to pay a ton to lock them up as they'll be UFA at the end of the year. If they suck, you'll likely move on and you have no goalies next year when it's a very weak UFA goalie crop. IMO, bringing in any of the many UFA/available goalies last year on a 2-3 year deal would have made a lot of sense...then choose either Hiller or Ramo based on who you assess will be better.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

Treliving - are you listening?

Please move, waive or buyout some older guys & guys that don't fit into our time line (3 to 6 years) and under performers (Raymond, Wideman, Hudler, Russell, Jones etc.)

This team needs to get back some youth and enthusiasm - bring up and reward the Nakladals, Grants etc., experiment and find out what we have in the system over the next couple of years, show your youngsters earned not given.

Hope we see a young Dman (Kylington, Andersson, Hickey etc.) get 5 to 7 games early next season.

Seem to be killing hope again like the sutter years.

So Russell, who is 28, is old and doesn't fit our timeline, but Nakladal, who is also 28, will bring in youth and enthusiasm. Interesting.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Not sure how much it worked out. You could gotten a guy like Enroth or Neuvirth for much cheaper and likely had equal or better goaltending to what the Flames have gotten this year.

Or Niemi for close to the same coin as Ramo.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

So Russell, who is 28, is old and doesn't fit our timeline, but Nakladal, who is also 28, will bring in youth and enthusiasm. Interesting.

Well, since he listed Russell's name in brackets after saying to get rid of under-performers...so I'm guessing that's why he wants him gone and not because he's too old.

[CaptainCrunch]

I give him a B, he's got what I call a pretty good core of young players going forward and they are well spread out and not focused on one spot.

Yeah, I disliked the goalie situation like most of you.

This really has to be the year that they finalize the end of the teardown and the beginning of the jump up the ladder next year.

so Brad has his work cut out for him in terms of the older players at the end or near the end of their contracts.

As it stands, if the Flames really flounder on their road trip the trade deadline becomes more a sell off of contracts then anything else as the club will likely be looking at a top 5 draft pick.

[mikephoen]

Gio has 21 points in his last 22 games and is playing maybe a touch below his truly outstanding play from last year, but he is rounding back into form.

Even factoring in his horrid first 20 games of the season, he is on pace to finish with 50 points. If he keeps up his pace from the 2nd quarter of the season, he will top 65 points. If I was betting, I would put him between 55 and 60, which is an awesome year overall. I don't think his contract would be any cheaper if signed this offseason instead of last. But it would be a huge distraction all year, and people would be railing at Treliving for not getting the contract done last summer.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I gave him an A. Why? He hasn't negatively impacted the team in the long-term, and getting Hamilton was a huge win. He has also remained steadfast in his approach for the long-haul, not short-term gains.

As for the goalie situation, in hindsight I give him an A on that. Why?

Imagine where the Flames would be without Ramo. Rumors had it that Hiller was going to be traded, and it wasn't difficult to see that Ramo became the favorite in the playoffs. Ramo was also the 2nd (or was it the 3rd?) highest road wins goalie in the NHL last year.

Ortio did poorly - and continues to do so. Hiller has not been solid - a couple of shutouts aside. Ramo has indeed given the Flames the best chance to win every night since being recalled, and one can only shudder at the prospect of not having him in the organization now. Not his fault that the goalie market dried up, and he did try and land Talbot as well.

He gets a few bonus marks for how he carries himself in the media. Always a good listen whenever he is on the Fan or other interviews, which is refreshing as I really couldn't stand Feaster any longer in the media.

[DiracSpike]

The other thing about Treliving is the guy works his butt off. He's in on every trade offer, constantly phones around the league, and just generally has a bulldog mentality. When a GM says "we didn't know ___ was avaiable" that's just code for saying they didnt do a good enough job, I can guarantee Treliving will never say that. He took Kylington just before mutliple GM's were about to, that's no accident.

Also I agree that the goalie situation is getting way overblown, I don't think anyone can argue re-signing Ramo wasn't the best call.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Well, since he listed Russell's name in brackets after saying to get rid of under-performers...so I'm guessing that's why he wants him gone and not because he's too old.

Well there is no chance that Kris is under performing his 2.6M contract, so that doesn't make much sense either.

[BrownDrake]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

So Russell, who is 28, is old and doesn't fit our timeline, but Nakladal, who is also 28, will bring in youth and enthusiasm. Interesting.

Not saying that Russell is too old, do we need Russell at 4.0 million on a 3 or 4 year or try Nakladal or Hickey on an ELC next year?

My comment covered guys that are old, under performers, expiring contracts, also rewarding workers that are unknowns versus known quantities that don't bring much to table other than higher cap hits.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

No, but you completely dismissed the goaltending fiasco which killed the team out of the gate and set a prospect on a very poor trajectory during the most critical year of his career. Seriously, how many people that are high level managers can make a mistake of this magnitude, have immediate negative results that cripple their business unit, and actually not get sacked? I think the only thing that saved his ass was the Hamilton trade. As Bingo said, that home run allows Treliving an opportunity to stand there and take strike three. That's why I say I it's his next at bat that will define him.

The bolded bit is outrageously hyperbolic. I don't believe for a second that you think Treliving's job was in jeopardy because the Flames started the season with three goaltenders. Come on.

As for this "fiasco" that a lot of people have chosen as the primary source for their criticism of Treliving, I do not believe that everyone is making a fair assessment. Yes, I agree. Starting the season with three goalies was not a good situation, and certainly Treliving deserves to bear some blame for the problems this created. But when I read a number of these posts, I am struck by the apparent expectations of people. Treliving is clearly a bright, sensible guy, as are most NHL GMs. But, he is not god. He is not perfect, and even when he is doing a good job, it is likely that he—nor ANY OTHER OF HIS COUNTERPARTS—will ever do the job perfectly. Contrary to the Darryl Sutter propaganda that we all relished, no NHL GM—Treliving included—can simply do what he wants. He just can't. And because of that, EVERY NHL GM is going to find himself in tough situations that he will not be able to effectively fix—at least, not the way we think he should.

I have no doubt that the last thing Treliving wanted was to have three goalies poised on the roster at the end of camp. It was NOT the plan, but it happened, despite his best intentions. Many of you seem to believe this was a simple fix, but what do we really know about what he did or did not do to correct it? Without knowing, how can we even decide that this was a correctable mistake?

I gave Treliving a B+. His job is to build a team that in the long run will win a championship, and I believe this team is a lot closer to that goal than it was when he was hired. A lot closer. Anyone who believes that Treliving has committed anything close to a terminal offence is being irrationally over-reactive, and should probably never be put in a position of responsibility or management.