Post Media layoffs

[Ashasx]

While I think there is some extremely high quality content on some non-mainstream websites out there, it hurts to see names like Randy and George get cut loose.

I need a reason to read articles now.

[Deelow]

I believe Francis is a freelancer for those asking.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

On a more general level, Postmedia is handling this about as poorly as the NHL handled John Scott. What purpose does it serve to condense the Sun and Herald to one newsroom, but still print two papers? This is obviously a prelude to folding one of the papers, but why wouldn't you just do that now and get it over with? (edit: aside from getting roasted by the government?)

Ignoring the people cost from the inevitable layoffs, the best set-up for them is to fold the Sun and convert the Herald to easily read tabloid format. (By that, I mean the style of the actual paper, not the nature of the writing.)

The Sun is far more profitable than the Herald, though. But you can see the dilemma since the Herald is a much more respected paper.

I think they can co-exist. Vancouver has been able to for years.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Deelow

I believe Francis is a freelancer for those asking.

My understanding is that Francis is the Sun's Johnson, for lack of a better term.

[cam_wmh]

If you ask me, they can re-hire & fire Dowbiggin & Francis a few times over, to save Johnson & Sportak.

How's Eric Duhatschek?

Originally Posted by Freeway

My understanding is that Francis is the Sun's Johnson, for lack of a better term.

There is surely a better term. That's insulting to Johnson.

[cam_wmh]

Oh wow, look at the re-tweets Eric's sharing about George Johnson.

https://twitter.com/eduhatschek

[Nammer403]

Damn, heard Sportak was let go on the drive home. Hopefully these guys get picked up by other media outlets

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I agree that newspapers as a business model are done for but relying on reddit for journalism is scary. You are taking in a lot of unsubstantiated bull#### on there, and rarely are you seeing both sides of a story which a professional journalist has an onus to do. Most of the time you're not even fully getting one side of a story, who is going to answer an e-mail or phone call from a redditer and comment on a story? It's not that professional journalists are perfect but to compare unfavourably to redditers is harsh.

So...just like reading the Sun?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

This is fine for most stories, but what about true investigative journalism? Things like Watergate or the Edward Snowden stuff? Or embedded journalists in war torn areas?

Investigative journalism is an important check and balance to Western society. I'm concerned that losing (or even hampering it) it has more consequences than we think.

The thing is - the newspapers who broke those kinds of stories - the New York Times, Washington Post, etc are likely doing fine because people will pay for content like what they produce.

It sucks for the people who lost their jobs - but do you really need the guy travelling with the team to write the post game article or grab a few practice quotes? Most teams put all the post game interviews up online for people who care to watch and everyone can watch the games if they want.

Even for the columnists - unless you're really, really good - I can go to forums, blogs, social media and read opinions on whatever I want these days. Even the argument that at least it keeps people out of a bubble of only hearing what they want to hear rings hollow these days with basically every newspaper in the country owned by the same company with their leanings.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

The Sun is far more profitable than the Herald, though. But you can see the dilemma since the Herald is a much more respected paper.

I think they can co-exist. Vancouver has been able to for years.

The Sun probably used cheaper staff on the whole, but one of its big advantages, I think, is the tabloid format. You still see the Sun at many restaurants because of its easily consumed size. Other than a few Second Cup locations, I rarely see the Herald in those places. Little things like that likely make a difference.

As far as co-existing, I think they could too, but the long term market trend is obvious. Also, if they share the same newsroom, there isn't actually a point to co-existing. They are really just the same paper with different branding at this point.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Just clued in that Sportak was let go as well. That stinks, I liked his stuff.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

This is fine for most stories, but what about true investigative journalism? Things like Watergate or the Edward Snowden stuff? Or embedded journalists in war torn areas?

Investigative journalism is an important check and balance to Western society. I'm concerned that losing (or even hampering it) it has more consequences than we think.

I find pieces from sources like Media Lens much more reliable and 'honest' than pieces from mainstream media like CNN.

When an editor from Al Jazeera was being corrected on CNN during a live interview when the USA was invading Iraq, that was my personal epiphany on what 'hard news' and 'mainstream media' are in today's world. Sorry, can't call it the Invasion of Iraq - it is the Liberation of Iraq! See! Look at the country now, so much better! Yay!

The Al Jazeera editor was bang-on when he argued his point that it was 100% an invasion.

You can't have honest and reliable media reported through big media conglomerates any longer. I am sure they fact check and ensure they don't print any liable, but they are not always reporting the 'truth'. That ship has sailed long before the internet took out most of their business.

There are great opinion pieces out there through mainstream media. It is still great for 'let's see what's happening in the world right now'. But it fails completely with informing you as to why this is happening, and what the people in those nations are actually going through. Just search for 'Fallujah birth defects' and "Fallujah uranium tipped ammo', and you open up a window to the world that might shock you, and that mainstream media doesn't want you to know about.

As for the Sports Journalists (and others) affected by these cuts, I can't help but feel sorry for them. I am sure a lot of guys - like George J - poured their heart and soul into what they wrote, and it is always a shock to the system doing what you probably love for decades and have it suddenly end with it not being on your terms. Hopefully they are able to find a place to land on their feet quickly.

[curves2000]

My take on this is it's a sad day for many people and for the local sports scene. I myself am an a big fan of the newspapers and I am only 31. I fully understand the content quality wasn't what it used to be but we as a society are undergoing significant change in the way many many businesses operate and its for the good and the bad depending on which side of the trade your on. Nobody is really immune.

I do wonder why some of the sports writers in today's sports environment didn't write stories from a different perspective as opposed to generally writing the same pre-game, post game, practice day type analysis that's easily available on the team's website, NHL.com etc?? More interesting items like fitness, Q&A sessions with players, nutrition, more management and coaching etc.

As the newspaper business as a whole goes through a serious transition the simple fact is that MANY young people just dont believe they should pay for specific content when so much is available for free online. Its a fact! If its media, news, music, videos or sports that people try and find a lot of younger people just dont think the requrement to pay is indeed needed. Someone needs to produce this stuff and they aren't doing it for their health!

I have had this argument with many friends and their counter argument is "why pay this corporations when I can get it for free" but when questioned why my NEED for new jewelry, booze, food, electronics, clothing, a new automobile, legal services etc trumps my requirement to pay, they get all offended. When its their livelihood at stake and that of their families people get all worked up, no matter who you are.

I am not on the side of the newspaper mogels or anything, in fact I have some pretty interesting memories of growing up as a child and hearing my parents complain about the crazy cost of throwing tiny little ads in the newspaper for $150-250 on a regular basis for our families business. This was many years ago but in today's dollars it was insanely expensive, hence one of the reasons why newspapers are suffering.

This isn't unique to newspapers. The "internet age" is causing all sorts of people to run businesses out of their homes, cars, online etc but with that carries much risk and a cost to society.

Business like Uber, Lyft, home and condo renting companies, food trucks, online news agencies etc have all transformed our economy in many good ways but with the lack of rules and clarity regarding certain things.

Should my condo unit be treated with the same level of fire protection as a hotel would be if I rented it to your family?

Should my quick online video course on specific medical treatment be sufficient to treat your family to specific cosmetic treatments in my condo, on my couch with my roomates in the same room?? You would be AMAZED at how many medical treatments are occurring by non-licensed or professional people at their homes. You don't hear about the consequences because people are embarrassed when things go wrong cause they look like morons.

What about a huge trend that's taking place in markets like Chicago, NY, Boston where "foodies" are gathering at people's homes for cooked meals that they pay for. What happens if you come to my condo, where I just finished performing a medical procedure mind you, and the family that rented it over the weekend left a mess, and I cook you a gourmet meal which you paid for. You have now contracted a serious illness from my lack of commercial grade kitchen and experience, I am not a professional chef, just a "foodie" who wants to make a little income on the side cooking.

I know my response got a little over the top but just some of the "news" articles and coverage I seen in both online and in newspaper print makes me shake my head. Articles on PM Justin Trudeau's socks, a front line story about his hairdresser. Where Graham James was vacationing years ago, how David Suzuki was "cheating" by using an electric motor on his bicycle despite being 70+ years old. Just some flat out garbage journalism. Just changing times I guess.

Anyhow, rant over! Back to Flames talk soon

[Wormius]

Were these layoffs the reason for the giant graffiti on the building? Is this old news, because I hadn't heard anything about it and it was pretty predominant on the side of the building when you are driving down Deerfoot.

[Freeway]

I'm obviously biased as a website guy, but I think the challenge for all media outlets is to provide interesting, engaging content that's different from what's provided by other outlets (like the team website, the newspapers, TV, etc).

The biggest challenge going forward will be it's really tough to do it full-time (two full-time gigs just evaporated today), and I fear we're heading into an era where part-time journalism will be the rule, not the exception. And while that's not optimal for sports reporting, it's downright horrifying in other beats.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by greentree

The Herald and the Journal are not union newsrooms. I doubt the two Sun papers are either. No one is getting two years severence, either. It will be a formula based on years served, to a maximum of about $150k.

You might be right, I was dealing with print-room guys rather than the journalists themselves. And those guys certainly were unionized and as a payout they got somewhere in the range you're describing which, for a $45K/year job, is pretty sweet.

And it was Post Media specifically.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Ignoring the people cost from the inevitable layoffs, the best set-up for them is to fold the Sun and convert the Herald to easily read tabloid format. (By that, I mean the style of the actual paper, not the nature of the writing.)

But what about the Sunshine Girls? Herald Hotties?

[blender]

Haven't read the whole thread, so this point may have been made, but if the writers that lost their jobs are talented enough there will be a forum for their work somewhere. I've never found either Johnson or Sportak to be remarkable in any way, but each to his own.

It's never cool to see people lose their jobs, but there's plenty of that going on at the moment in all sorts of fields.

[Dion]

Randy Sportak
@SUNRandySportak Well, that day's over. Cheers to 16 years at NHL rinks.

9:00 PM - 19 Jan 2016

[dammage79]

Ugh, I liked Sportak. He was always good for a chat on the old twitter. Best of luck man. Crazy times we live in.