Dave Hogg
@Stareagle
Edward Jones Dome was built in 1995. Missouri still owes $72 million in stadium bonds, while St. Louis city and STL county owe $36M each.
Public funds for stadiums are among the dumbest things you can do with public money.
Dave Hogg
@Stareagle
Edward Jones Dome was built in 1995. Missouri still owes $72 million in stadium bonds, while St. Louis city and STL county owe $36M each.
Public funds for stadiums are among the dumbest things you can do with public money.
The only thing that this shows is that the city and state negotiated a bad deal. If you are putting up money for a project like that, it seems pretty straight-forward that you would include a provision that locks the tenant in for the life of the loan.
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The only thing that this shows is that the city and state negotiated a bad deal. If you are putting up money for a project like that, it seems pretty straight-forward that you would include a provision that locks the tenant in for the life of the loan.
Seems like you have a lot higher opinion for public officials than I do.
The only thing that this shows is that the city and state negotiated a bad deal. If you are putting up money for a project like that, it seems pretty straight-forward that you would include a provision that locks the tenant in for the life of the loan.
What are some of the good deals for cities that have funded pro sports stadiums?
The current capital budget is $5.8 BILLION dollars... Bike lanes were 0.1 % of that. You should really pick something more material to harp on because your wasting your time.
I missed the part where I mentioned bike lanes anywhere in my post.
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The only thing that this shows is that the city and state negotiated a bad deal. If you are putting up money for a project like that, it seems pretty straight-forward that you would include a provision that locks the tenant in for the life of the loan.
They built the thing to entice a team to come there. They didn't exactly have the power in negotiating.
Its a prime example of how the owners use cities against each other to secure funding. Los Angeles wouldn't pay to have the LA Rams stadium updated and St.Louis was dangling tons of money so they left and went there.
The lease was set-up so it could be broken if the stadium wasn't in the top-tier of NFL stadiums so basically as long as new stadiums were being built - the lease was going to be able to broken.
The only thing that this shows is that the city and state negotiated a bad deal. If you are putting up money for a project like that, it seems pretty straight-forward that you would include a provision that locks the tenant in for the life of the loan.
Thus, all the more reason for the City to thoroughly vet this process and demand a real proposal with real numbers and real methods of financing.
watching the Steve Jobs presentation. Apple bought the combination of lands from 2006 to 2008. Did the research for 3 years and presented it to council in 2011 and council approved it in 2013. That's 5-7 years for a building holding 12,000 people.
The Flames aren't even at the 2006 initial stage. They don't know what the land is.
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Last edited by GirlySports; 01-13-2016 at 10:34 AM.
Toronto is the only successful example of a privately funded NHL arena in Canada. Given the size of the Toronto market and the greater frequency of events, it's obviously not that comparable to Calgary. Both Molson Centre and GM Place went into bankruptcy shortly after construction resulting in losses for initial investors. Here's a synopsis by Edmonton mayor Don Iveson.
The Flames are putting up essentially $450M, which should be enough to get an arena done on its own. In my opinion, the need for a new stadium in Calgary is far greater than that for an arena. The only way a new stadium will happen is with public money. Every major outdoor stadium built in Canada in recent has been publicly funded. Stade Saputo, BMO field, new Mosaic, IG Field, TD Place, Tim Hortons field, BC Place renovation, etc. When McMahon is eventually replaced, public dollars will be required. The concept the Flames are proposing provides a far greater public benefit than any of the listed facilities by including a fieldhouse and community rink.
We need to replace our stadium and arena in the near term. There are economies and synergies to be gained by co-locating the assets. Building both together will result in a lower cost to the taxpayer than the Flames building a privately financed arena, the City footing at least portion of the bill for a separate McMahon 2.0, and the entire cost of a new fieldhouse. The concept is sound.
Thanks for that, especially Iveson's synopsis
IMO, it's their desired location that is so contentious, and exponentially raises the cost of the project. It also eats up prime real estate, for when our localized economy is ready to develop it; CRL.
Bunk's proposal, seems best to me --- can they consolidate this youth center with the field house?
They built the thing to entice a team to come there. They didn't exactly have the power in negotiating.
Its a prime example of how the owners use cities against each other to secure funding. Los Angeles wouldn't pay to have the LA Rams stadium updated and St.Louis was dangling tons of money so they left and went there.
The lease was set-up so it could be broken if the stadium wasn't in the top-tier of NFL stadiums so basically as long as new stadiums were being built - the lease was going to be able to broken.
In other words, they negotiated a bad deal, Like I said. Doesn't mean all deals are bad or that all owners are enemies of the state.
Lot's of pessimism here after Bettman's visit: http://www.sportsnet.ca/960. He actually made things worse. What's the over/under that we will EVER see something built? I'm saying ten years at least with the Flames shelling out more or all for a new arena only. It won't be as swanky as Edmonton's that's for sure. I could also see them selling the Stamps since they don't make any money and will never host another grey cup (nor should they in that abomination).
