If the ownership group wants to get a boat load of money from the city it will need to compromise. Realistically, at the end of the day, it won't be IF the city forks over money, it will be how much (that's just how things have worked).
If they want to see a new arena built, I'd say the city needs to squeeze the ownership group to move the new arena/stadium to in and around Stampede Park like Bunk's proposal suggests.
Well yeah, Ken King's only job now is to come up with an arena deal that works, and what he gave us was hot flaming garbage. So I do have more disdain for him than the ownership group that contributes a lot to the fabric of our city and is one of the main reasons we have a hockey team. Good thing you're clear-eyed enough to see through their dastardly deception though, I mean they are rich so that must mean they're bad people.
I've previously stated that I think the Flames are generally good corporate citizens (I wouldn't necessarily say that about most of the owners' other holdings), and you're really making a leap that I am 'anti-rich people'.
Kings marching orders are obviously to get a deal at minimal cost to the owners. I don't think he has done a very good job, but I also don't think he is the only one involved in drawing this up. I don't think he was the one who rung up Brett Wilson of George Brookman and asked them to shill in some youtube videos. There is lots happening behind closed doors, and a big part of King and Bettman's jobs is to take the heat.
I'm sure the city has a list $20 billion long on needs and wants. I'd rather it be prioritized then forced. Anyway, all I'm saying is they may not be asking for $1 billion, but it is going to cost that.
Sure, but you say it like all of that $1b is going to be for the benefit of the Flames. It's just not.
I piled on Nenshi, and I still believe he is being a smarmy little twerp in all this. However, I also agree with the sentiment that Ken King has handled this like a complete amateur. I'm surprised he didn't show up with this:
"I added this racing stripe, and I think that's pretty smart."
Ahhhh, incorrect Simpsons quotes kill me, lol.
Quote:
Then, I added some fins to lower wind resistance. And this racing stripe here I feel is pretty sharp.
negotiate to build it on stampede grounds for free (win-win for everyone).
Done deal. This thing could be done by 2020.
That's my thinking as well. Build it where the Big 4 Building is or north Stampede grounds. As ticket holder I am ok with the ticket tax. Owners seem ok with their $250MM. Try to complete by end of the decade.
Work at a later date with the city on field house/stadium for the public and Stamps. Maybe then West Village as that'll be a longer process and can figure out contamination. City can contribute with portion of funding and clean up costs. I am ok watching Stamps games at McMahon until then.
Whatever you might think of Nenshi, a sports commissioner from New York coming to a city that's more than 100 years old and telling the business leaders of that city that the viability of the city as whole is in doubt without paying for an Arena is about as close to proverbial slap in the face as you can get.
The city of Calgary did just fine for the 70+ years before the Flames arrived and would be just fine if the Flames had never existed in the first place.
Top notch rebuttal from Nenshi. I've said it before about how the Flames have handled this, they have poisoned the well of conversation before even entering into a debate.
A good faith gesture would have been consulting with the city of Calgary throughout the development process, not pressuring them for a billion dollars after they have already allocated infrastructure spending for the next 3+ years.
The Flames think they can cut in line and make a bunch of noise to get what they want. The side effect of a Newspaper man running the show?
Sure, but you say it like all of that $1b is going to be for the benefit of the Flames. It's just not.
Sigh. No, I never said that. I said it forces the city to spend $1b in that location on those projects. Obviously it benefits more than just the Flames, but it takes money form other projects that may have higher needs.
Sigh. No, I never said that. I said it forces the city to spend $1b in that location on those projects. Obviously it benefits more than just the Flames, but it takes money form other projects that may have higher needs.
Yeah I get that. What would you like to see done before the Crowchild interchange? The creosote can sit there until the end of time, but the land is useless for any type of development until it's gone. The field house is a project that goes back years. What would you like to see prioritized above those things? Maybe LRT expansion?
If you really believe that those things should be done regardless, again, combining those updates with a massive project like this can only lower the cost than if they were all done separately. So there's really no point in factoring it into the overall 'cost" of CGYnext any more than you factor in any other government spending that is completely unrelated.
Well it's not up to me to decide priorities. The fieldhouse, creosote cleanup, and Crowchild are all un-budgeted wants and needs. This forces them to be budgeted. You can see that as a plus or minus, but you have to acknowledge they will come at the expense of other projects.
If you really want a list of other projects, well there is Deerfoot, the Green Line LRT, burying the downtown LRT, new interchanges related to the West ring road, and I could really use a new pub by me.
I think the most surprising thing I've learned out of all this is that people honestly believe the Stamps' biggest problem in terms of drawing people is their stadium, and not the CFL product as a whole. As someone who considers himself an NFL fan, but will still go to CFL games if there's one on when he's in Calgary if one doesn't conflict with my schedule, I can tell you that the rules of the game, the officiating, talent level, and the fact that over 50% of the teams make the playoffs are far bigger factors.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rubecube For This Useful Post:
I think the most surprising thing I've learned out of all this is that people honestly believe the Stamps' biggest problem in terms of drawing people is their stadium, and not the CFL product as a whole. As someone who considers himself an NFL fan, but will still go to CFL games if there's one on when he's in Calgary if one doesn't conflict with my schedule, I can tell you that the rules of the game, the officiating, talent level, and the fact that over 50% of the teams make the playoffs are far bigger factors.
Well, I like the CFL game and I gave up my seasons tickets several years ago, in large part because the venue is a nightmare.
The Following User Says Thank You to GioforPM For This Useful Post:
Bettman doesn't understand Albertans. If he did - or his advisors did - he'd realize that rejecting the "expertise" of Easterners is fundamental to the Alberta identity.
He did this in Edmonton around the time Katz was pulling his Seattle meetings stunt. It backfired in Edmonton and isn't going well in Calgary.
That being said, Nenshi blew this. He could have tilted the scales heavily in the City's favour by attending the meeting (even if he posted the exact same tweet after the meeting). Nenshi is elected to be the City's representative. The majority of the City wants to have discussions on the arena. How those discussions end up is still undecided, but people want the discussions.
Instead of being the City's representative, Nenshi presents as a petulant know it all who is going to tell Calgarians what is important to them (aka, a Harper/Redford/Prentice/Notley on-high style of leadership). That doesn't work here.
__________________
"OOOOOOHHHHHHH those Russians" - Boney M
Well it's not up to me to decide priorities. The fieldhouse, creosote cleanup, and Crowchild are all un-budgeted wants and needs. This forces them to be budgeted. You can see that as a plus or minus, but you have to acknowledge they will come at the expense of other projects.
If you really want a list of other projects, well there is Deerfoot, the Green Line LRT, burying the downtown LRT, new interchanges related to the West ring road, and I could really use a new pub by me.
Your other projects are all things that need/should be done, yes. And I understand your issue of "forcing" the budget, but IMO, at least the Crowhild interchange and Creosote are long overdue. Whatever helps them get done is a plus in my books.
And yes it is up to you to decide the priorities. You're a citizen of the city. You can lobby your council person until you're blue in the face abotu anything you want.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Coach For This Useful Post:
Well, I like the CFL game and I gave up my seasons tickets several years ago, in large part because the venue is a nightmare.
Fair enough. I just have a hard time finding any of the games compelling, outside of the rivalry games, because there really aren't any playoff implications until the last couple of weeks. The regular season would be 100x more interesting if it was just the two division winners meeting in the Grey Cup.
Bettman doesn't understand Albertans. If he did - or his advisors did - he'd realize that rejecting the "expertise" of Easterners is fundamental to the Alberta identity.
He did this in Edmonton around the time Katz was pulling his Seattle meetings stunt. It backfired in Edmonton and isn't going well in Calgary.
That being said, Nenshi blew this. He could have tilted the scales heavily in the City's favour by attending the meeting (even if he posted the exact same tweet after the meeting). Nenshi is elected to be the City's representative. The majority of the City wants to have discussions on the arena. How those discussions end up is still undecided, but people want the discussions.
Instead of being the City's representative, Nenshi presents as a petulant know it all who is going to tell Calgarians what is important to them (aka, a Harper/Redford/Prentice/Notley on-high style of leadership). That doesn't work here.
Nenshi isn't asking the Flames and the NHL for hundreds of millions of dollars.
IamnotKenKing said something similiar a few months ago, that Nenshi wasn't making a good impression on the Flames.
Nenshi and the city of Calgary are quite happy to have the Flames play in the Saddledome.
Maybe it's ownerships experience working at the provincial level that has lead them to be so arrogant.
