[News] Bettman urges new arena ASAP

[Lanny_McDonald]

As an ex-Calgarian who has moved on to bigger and much greener pastures I can tell you that Calgary is a small city with a smaller city attitude. Having lived in a few of the big cities around our continent I can tell you that one of things that separates them from Calgary is entertainment. There are so many choices in other cities that don't exist in Calgary. Much of this entertainment is a result of the infrastructure and facilities built for, and around, these cities sports teams. The restaurants and bars, the small theaters and spots for live music, didn't exist until these entertainment districts were created. The gentrification that resulted wouldn't have happened if not for these districts being created. Parts of town that people used to avoid are now the place to go and be entertained. All because the local sports team needed a new place to play their 12-14 games a year.

I would think that the down turn in the economy would be a warning shot across the bow for Calgarians and an opportunity to see how easily it is for their city to fall back into the small hick-burg it was after the NEP killed the O&G sector for a few years. The place was a ghost town and couldn't draw flies, let alone business. With the rumblings of the O&G sector being disenchanted and looking east and west for other home bases, Calgary could get that old ghost town feel again.

You know, a city is only as good as its reputation. Calgary gets a lot of positive press from its sports teams. Calgary generates a lot of tourism because of its sports teams. Calgarians generate a lot of pride because of those sports teams. Most of you probably weren't born, but you would not believe how bad it was to have to chose between which regional NHL team you were going to cheer for; the Edmonton Oilers or the Vancouver Canucks. Think about having to make that choice. Calgary became major league because of the Flames. Calgary was able to get the Olympics because of the Flames (the Saddledome never would have been built without the Flames as a primary tenant). Calgary attracts businesses because of many things, but the Flames play large into that. They are a big part of the spirit that makes Calgary what it is. I can't imagine what the city would be like without the Flames, or the Flames not being a power player in the NHL. Again, for you young people, as some of the old timers what it was like when the Flames were on life support and a second thought in the NHL picture, as nothing but a small remote western out-post. Those weren't good times. I would hate for us to get back to that.

I think the best thing possible for Calgarians is Edmonton's new facility coming online. It is going to show Calgary up bad and make Calgary look second rate. That is pretty sad because Edmonton is a third rate city. It will still be Edmonton, but it will elevate Edmonton above Calgary for entertainment and sports facilities yet again. I hope that kick in the nuts will wake up enough people to see the importance of these projects and building on a core component for the city to build around. As it sits the city of Calgary has a creosote soaked piece of property that has been sitting there for decades doing nothing. They have an eye-sore called the Stampede grounds. Sandwiched in between is the downtown core that empties out at night. For all the #### Calgary gives Edmonton about being stuck in the 1980's, the city of Calgary is clearly stuck in the early 1990's. Calgary needs this project to move forward, to kick start something that will be good for all Calgarians and help make the city more than it is. Take that from someone who has seen the results up close and personal.

Oh, and someone needs to take Neshi's phone away from him and shut down his twitter account. The guy is an embarrassment to the City of Calgary.

[Tinordi]

The entire post above is speculative baseless double-speak that doesn't address any of the legitimate criticisms of the project.

[Hockeyguy15]

I think Nenshi could have handled this much better. You can't really argue with him in that what is the point of the meeting, since there is no new info. But really instead of putting out a snarky release he could have just said that the city isn't prepared to discuss the project until the report on the land clean up comes in.

Honestly the city has to work with the Flames on this regardless of how much they are willing to chip in.

[blender]

I think Nenshi is absolutely right to snub Bettman. Bettman and the NHL can pack sand. I love the Flames, but the NHL needs them way more than Calgary needs the Flames.
The single best thing about Nenshi is his willingness to disavow corporate interests. We need more politicians like him IMO.
Bettman is only doing his job in his greasy way, so I can't fault him, but this is all posturing and bluff; Nenshi knows how to play and I'm very glad he's not a pushover.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

Only for us big time sports fans. Calgary has a big population now but so many people here have no idea who the Flames or Stamps even are. I'm not exaggerating almost everyday I'm telling someone who the Flames are.

In a thread full of very dumb comments, this one is the worst.

No, you aren't telling people almost everyday (sic) who the Flames are.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The NHL currently has at least 4 franchises that are total money losers. Calgary is one of the top 10 most profitable and viable markets. If the Flames owners and Bettman want to use the threat of moving, and thus cost themselves tens of millions of dollars (and possibly hundreds of millions in the long term), then let them cut their nose to spite their face. The moving threat is absolutely laughable.

As to Nenshi's reaction, sure I guess he could have been more diplomatic and full of #### like Bettman tried to be, but everyone is lighting Bettman up here too, so both approaches get him nowhere. Doesn't change how pathetic and desperate Bettman looks, nor does it change that most people who don't support Nenshi actually support him on this one.

And Ken King should be fired. Remember when they were going to "do it right" and "learn from Edmonton"? Yeah, this is easily the worst attempt to get public funds for arena I've seen, and there's many examples. Total disaster that has horribly backfired. There's almost no one excited for this project in its current state.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

In a thread full of very dumb comments, this one is the worst.

No, you aren't telling people almost everyday (sic) who the Flames are.

It's a dumb comment for sure unless the poster maybe works at the airport?

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

And Ken King should be fired. Remember when they were going to "do it right" and "learn from Edmonton"? Yeah, this is easily the worst attempt to get public funds for arena I've seen, and there's many examples. Total disaster that has horribly backfired. There's almost no one excited for this project in its current state.

I don't really understand the thought process the Flames have. Ok, you pick a site that is a hurdle from the get go with the clean up. Why not just stop there, and go to the city and say this site interests us but before we go forward can we see if this is viable or not.

It really looks like the Flames put in minimal vision because they aren't even sure if the site will work because of the clean up. Why bother doing half assed sketches and plans when they clearly waiting to see if the site will work at all.

I know they say they don't have a plan B, but that's only because plan A is so far in it's infancy it would be easy to scrap if the land clean up is an issue.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by blender

I think Nenshi is absolutely right to snub Bettman. Bettman and the NHL can pack sand. I love the Flames, but the NHL needs them way more than Calgary needs the Flames.
The single best thing about Nenshi is his willingness to disavow corporate interests. We need more politicians like him IMO.
Bettman is only doing his job in his greasy way, so I can't fault him, but this is all posturing and bluff; Nenshi knows how to play and I'm very glad he's not a pushover.

Yeah, I mean...with a provincial government snubbing the economic machine that drives Alberta, and the municipal government getting into pissing matches on Twitter and acting like a 6 year old in front of cameras...Calgarians, and Albertans sure do have a lot of reasons to be proud of our politicians right now.


Go politics! To hell with profit driven corporations! Who needs 'em!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I think Nenshi could have handled this much better. You can't really argue with him in that what is the point of the meeting, since there is no new info. But really instead of putting out a snarky release he could have just said that the city isn't prepared to discuss the project until the report on the land clean up comes in.

He didn't put out a release, he was asked a question by reporters and answered it, and they transcribed the answer.

[Ducay]

I thought of writing a long argumentative post, but in the end, all the sides are approaching this in the wrong way, but its all a moot point because the plan submitted is terrible and will never go ahead with that much public funds.

Owners are sitting on $5+ Billion themselves. If it was such a good business case, they'd build an areana themselves and get the city to throw in infrastructure and land in exchange for the tax base bump.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

He didn't put out a release, he was asked a question by reporters and answered it, and they transcribed the answer.

I think my point is still valid though. Just say the city isn't prepared to discuss it anymore until the report on the clean up comes back. Simple, professional, and effective.

[blender]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I mean...with a provincial government snubbing the economic machine that drives Alberta, and the municipal government getting into pissing matches on Twitter and acting like a 6 year old in front of cameras...Calgarians, and Albertans sure do have a lot of reasons to be proud of our politicians right now.


Go politics! To hell with profit driven corporations! Who needs 'em!

Well, I'm not a Calgarian or an Albertan anymore, so I don't feel any reason to be emotional about the politics there. It not about politics anyhow. It's about spending a lot of public money, end stop, and if people can't see how the Flames owners and the NHL are trying to use emotion and thinly-veiled threats to scare people into spending it those people need to be helped to see it. Calgary holds all the cards here and every player knows it.

I want to see a new stadium for the Flames, as well as a field house and lots of other things, and I'm sure it will happen, but I hope the City can grind every single cent out of the team that it can. It's just smart business.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by New Era

As an ex-Calgarian who has moved on to bigger and much greener pastures I can tell you that Calgary is a small city with a smaller city attitude.

Uggh, what a condescending and insulting opening line.

As for the rest of the post. I've been to my share of cities that have these entertainment districts built around sports venues. In my experience they are pretty hit and miss. In my anecdotal experience, they tend to attract over-commercialized, large establishments because they are usually artificially created with a chunk of public money. You end up with lots of places to spend $9 for a glass of your favorite Anheuser Busch beverage to enjoy with your mediocre food. The live music venues consist of some concert halls where you can catch some 90s rock band trying to still live off their one or two hit songs The places tend to all be packed during the first couple years, and then people only will go to the areas during game days.

If anything, I've trained myself to stay away from such areas when visiting a city. Anything worth experiencing in terms of restaurants, or culture is almost always found in the more organically created restaurant and entertainment districts.

The Flames are important to Calgary. They are a big part of their identity. I personally despise public financing of stadiums. From what I've read they are the worst possible way to spend public money in terms of the multiplier effect. It will be tough for Calgary to take a stand on its own against public financing of their arena. It really is ridiculous that the public has to pay for these buildings so they can pay the players millions of dollars. I think thought the public opinion is moving against this kind of spending in general both in Canada and the US. It is probably a necessary evil that there will be some public spending required to build a building to keep the Flames. The financial benefit of keeping the Flames is probably over-stated, but their is a large emotional benefit of the Flames to Calgary that probably justifies some public spending. I'd be very skeptical of either Calgary or Edmonton ending up with a worthwhile entertainment district coming out of it though.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by krazycanuck

Honestly, what the crap is this?

Hahahaha...this is so amateur. Time for some new architects (in addition to new executive team to lead this. KK is clearly in over his head and has wasted everyone's time for the past 5+ years).

[DJones]

So you guys really think that a company will pay a billion dollars to keep a company running smoothly that generates 20-30 million in profits?

3% ROI with a lot of risk involved. Who in their right mind would ever do that. They aren't benefiting from the job creation and ripple effect.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by New Era

As an ex-Calgarian who has moved on to bigger and much greener pastures I can tell you that Calgary is a small city with a smaller city attitude. Having lived in a few of the big cities around our continent I can tell you that one of things that separates them from Calgary is entertainment. There are so many choices in other cities that don't exist in Calgary. Much of this entertainment is a result of the infrastructure and facilities built for, and around, these cities sports teams. The restaurants and bars, the small theaters and spots for live music, didn't exist until these entertainment districts were created. The gentrification that resulted wouldn't have happened if not for these districts being created. Parts of town that people used to avoid are now the place to go and be entertained. All because the local sports team needed a new place to play their 12-14 games a year.

...Calgary generates a lot of tourism because of its sports teams.

...I think the best thing possible for Calgarians is Edmonton's new facility coming online. It is going to show Calgary up bad and make Calgary look second rate.

Wow, where to begin?
I have moved on from Calgary as well, along with many other posters here. And while I agree that Calgary isn't the most dynamic city and still has a small-town mentality in many areas, the addition of an arena will not change this. Culture is ingrained in the people, not the infrastructure. The infrastructure facilitates culture, but doesn't define it. It is not a magic bullet that brings cultural enlightenment.

And yes, entertainment is a major difference between Calgary and other major centres; but the addition of an arena and an entertainment district will not bring any new or additional services to Calgary which don't presently exist. It will potentially relocate services from elsewhere in the City (at a detriment to those areas), but it will not magically make people want to spend money on entertainment that they presently don't.

I sincerely doubt that Calgary generates much tourism due to the Flames. Most Flames fans are regional.

Finally, I think Edmonton having this arena first is a great idea if only to show Calgarians that the addition of a new arena doesn't have a large impact on the City, or its residents, beyond those attending the sports events. Lipstick on a pig.

If Calgarians make this decision based on a speculative inferiority complex with Edmonton (really??), then it is not a wise decision. Keeping up with the Jones' is not a great idea when your trashy neighbours spend their rent money on a new Camero.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by DJones

So you guys really think that a company will pay a billion dollars to keep a company running smoothly that generates 20-30 million in profits?

3% ROI with a lot of risk involved. Who in their right mind would ever do that. They aren't benefiting from the job creation and ripple effect.

Sports teams are more about equity generation and less about profit

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by DJones

So you guys really think that a company will pay a billion dollars to keep a company running smoothly that generates 20-30 million in profits?

So you think the city should spend the same amount to generate even less?

If it doesn't make sense for the Flames to spend that money then it doesn't make sense for the city to spend it either.

[Coach]

My only real problem with the whole CalgaryNext is the actual proposal/presentation.

I like the location
I am OK with the city's contribution for the public use facilities (I'd like transparency on this. IE, I want to KNOW that not a single tax payer dollar even went to painting the dressing rooms in the arena).
I am happy to have the city pay for any infrastructure updates required to make it work. (particularly the Bow/Memorial/Crowchild interchange. That thing is a fricken mess. If this is what it takes to fix it, fine.)
But you can't come out with literally zero plan, no renderings of what the building will actually look like, and a vague financing plan, and just expect the citizens to say "Ooooo pretty! Heres 400 million!" You have to make it "pretty" first.

I listened to most of Bettman's interview with Kerr and something that bugged me was his assertion that "the citizens, the leadership, and the Flames, all have to agree that this is something that is important. The numbers can be worked out after and will fall into place as they must."

No Gary. I think the city overall is pretty much onboard that a facility like this should be built. We ARE in the stage where the numbers have to be worked out, and it's up to the private business looking to see the most benefit from the building (key word MOST benefit. The city will benefit overall, not as much as the Flames will though) to come up with a proper proposal. If KKs presentation is the same spiel they have given to city council, I wouldn't blame them at all for laughing them out of the room. You guys are business people. What if someone came to you with an idea to build a building with 1/2 your money, with ambiguous benefits to you, and this is the presentation they gave. Seriously? Put yourselves on the other side of the table for a moment and REALLY think about it.