[News] Bettman urges new arena ASAP

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

Sorry, could you please explain for the uninformed amongst us? What was the deal in Indianapolis and how is it a success? And how is that a good comparable for the Flames?

Indianapolis has a fieldhouse that is used for multiple events. Hockey, Basketball, concerts, track, swimming etc. I think it's owned by the Coty. That's the only similarity though I think. The Pacers play there and it is a successful venue but other than that there is nothing really in common. It is not connected with Lucas Oil Stadium at all.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ever want to bid for Olympics or any other major events? If that asset is 100% privately controlled they're going to tell you where to shove it.

Same thing goes anything else, especially if it involves cooperation.

Canucks own Rogers arena. Worked out for 2010.

Bmo field and Rogers centre for Panam

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by DJones

It probably won't generate profit. Breaking even would be fantastic.

There isn't a lot of money in recreational high school sports and the like.

Then why would the City of Calgary want to get in on this deal?

Consider the Saddledome - The city paid for renovations in 1995 and then sold it to the Flames.

What renovations have the Flames done since then? I'll give you a hint: The capacity of the Saddledome has been 19,289 since 1995. If it's so lucrative to own an arena, you'd think the Flames would renovate it and keep it modern/up to date.

If the public HAS to chip in for this, put the new arena somewhere in the SE near Stoney (like Glendale arena in Phoenix). Worthless land that can be given away. Don't give away lucrative land like West/East village.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

Sorry, could you please explain for the uninformed amongst us? What was the deal in Indianapolis and how is it a success? And how is that a good comparable for the Flames?

The fieldhouse cost 180 million to build. All by the city with the I Indiana Pacers as tenants.

Lucas Oil Stadium cost 700 million to build with the city 600 millio and the Colts 100 million. City raised food, beer and hotel taxes. Also a 2% ticket tax. Also sold Colts license plates and Lucas Oil naming is 120 million over 20 years.

It may sound steep but that land was nothing before. It revitaluzed downtown. In America there are more big events to host. NCAA tounament games., NCAA Big 10 Championship plus Pacers and Colts games.

It also was not done all in one shot. Fieldhouse in 1999 and stadium 10 years later.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Then why would the City of Calgary want to get in on this deal?

Consider the Saddledome - The city paid for renovations in 1995 and then sold it to the Flames.

What renovations have the Flames done since then? I'll give you a hint: The capacity of the Saddledome has been 19,289 since 1995. If it's so lucrative to own an arena, you'd think the Flames would renovate it and keep it modern/up to date.

If the public HAS to chip in for this, put the new arena somewhere in the SE near Stoney (like Glendale arena in Phoenix). Worthless land that can be given away. Don't give away lucrative land like West/East village.

Because it's embarassing that a city of Calgarys caliber doesn't have anywhere for it's amateur athletes to play. Passed up on World cup, no winter classic, the list goes on.

I would love for it to be in the north or east part of town. Would make my trips in a hell of a lot easier than downtown.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by DJones

I don't use the bike paths, the new bridge, the library, and I won't use the expansion LRT. I don't even know what the Foothills Athletic Park is but that costs $140 million.

At least I would use the building to watch the Flames, my kids will use the field house, and I will never have to drive to Edmonton or Saskatoon to watch a concert again.

Free, free, soon to be free I believe (library), $3.25 or less. User fees and reach of public benefit is so very disparate between an arena and the things you listed.

Sorry to hear about your first world problems having to take a vacation to see a Justin Timberlake, though. That is a legitimate gripe, and a real reason the city should pony up.

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Absolutely. The guy racked up $100k in lawyer fees just to avoid apologizing for a comment he made. All on principle.

Principles...what an awful thing to stand for Did you have an opinion when Burke sued over online comments about unfounded rumours about him?

Originally Posted by Locke

Ever want to bid for Olympics or any other major events? If that asset is 100% privately controlled they're going to tell you where to shove it.

Same thing goes anything else, especially if it involves cooperation.

No, they're going to say "the building costs this much to use". Just like they would to any concert promoter or other event. More likely, they would get involved and help try to make the event happen, as those would be lucrative dates for the venue.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by DJones

Why?

Stampeders play there 10 times a year. The rest of the year would be at the discretion of the city to use.

Makes a lot more sense for the city to rent it out to the Stampeders than the Stampeders renting it out to the city for 95% of the year.

The Stamps hold training camp, exhibition games, and they also practice there all season. They won't be there just 10 days a year. They would be the primary (if not only) tenant from from the start of June through November. Dressing rooms, offices, training facilities... it would all be a part of the city's fieldhouse that the other people in the city won't be able to use.

When the other people do get to use it, it's a single field surrounded by 30,000 seats. A bit of overkill for amateur soccer, I'd say, and it wouldn't make much of a difference at all to overbooked amateur sports facilities.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by DJones

Because it's embarassing that a city of Calgarys caliber doesn't have anywhere for some of it's amateur athletes to play. Passed up on World cup, no winter classic, the list goes on.

FYP. Although not what we were in the past, Calgary is still probably the main training hub for most winter amateur sports. Just not stick and ball sports.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by fredr123

PCL in Edmonton caught a bit of flack by bringing in stuff from out of province. Obviously not all of the economic benefit of the construction of a project like this would be local: http://albertaenterprisegroup.com/ca...dering-quebec/

I do know a little bit about the construction process on Rogers Arena. There was little chance any firm in Alberta could have fabricated all of the components themselves, they awarded the building envelope of a big company that has done a bunch of pro sports buildings, who then subbed a fair amount of onsite work and small components back to Alberta companies.

The other option would have been going to an Alberta company that had little experience in this type of project, who would have subbed allot of the manufacturing out, probably to the same company that actually ended up winning the award.

Also this article complains that the Edmonton company did not get a fair shot to bid on the Quebec city project. But it really wouldn't mater. Freight on construction materials in mitigating for Alberta to export manufactured goods. All of the steel comes from Ontario and all of the wood comes from Quebec, so you would be hauling material across the country 2 twice.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The Stamps hold training camp, exhibition games, and they also practice there all season. They won't be there just 10 days a year. They would be the primary (if not only) tenant from from the start of June through November. Dressing rooms, offices, training facilities... it would all be a part of the city's fieldhouse that the other people in the city won't be able to use.

When the other people do get to use it, it's a single field surrounded by 30,000 seats. A bit of overkill for amateur soccer, I'd say, and it wouldn't make much of a difference at all to overused amateur sports facilities.

Well then the Stampeders are not a viable business then. BC, Winnipeg, Regina, Toronto, Hamilton all were funded predominantly or completely by public funds.

They will not build it privately. So you either fund it or you lose the team. There isn't a middle ground.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by DJones

Because it's embarassing that a city of Calgarys caliber doesn't have anywhere for it's amateur athletes to play. Passed up on World cup, no winter classic, the list goes on.

I would love for it to be in the north or east part of town. Would make my trips in a hell of a lot easier than downtown.

I can kind of agree with this.

I don't mind the city contributing for some culture. The problem is when the Flames want the city to pay for 80%+ of the costs (creosote cleanup, CRL, servicing/admining the ticket tax loan, renovations/repairs for the entire area, infrastructure development like realignment of Bow trail, and the fieldhouse).

If the Flames were putting up 1 billion+ and the City putting up 200M (basically the opposite of the current proposal), I'd be a lot more on board.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by DJones

Because it's embarassing that a city of Calgarys caliber doesn't have anywhere for it's amateur athletes to play. Passed up on World cup, no winter classic, the list goes on.

I would love for it to be in the north or east part of town. Would make my trips in a hell of a lot easier than downtown.

How much further does the list go?

So build a field house. Why is that tied to a Flames arena, environmental reclamation project, 30, 000 seats, naming rights, etc.? That's like tying in a new leash-free dog park to an Ikea.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

FYP. Although not what we were in the past, Calgary is still probably the main training hub for most winter amateur sports. Just not stick and ball sports.

Yes because we put massive infrastructure and public fundinginto it. Those facilities are getting very dated themselves though.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

How much further does the list go?

So build a field house. Why is that tied to a Flames arena, environmental reclamation project, 30, 000 seats, naming rights, etc.? That's like tying in a new leash-free dog park to an Ikea.

That's fair. The city could counter with we can fund the fieldhouse but your plan is flawed. Whether that be moving the whole project or whatever. At some point that land is going to have to be reclaimed either way though.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Regorium

What renovations have the Flames done since then? I'll give you a hint: The capacity of the Saddledome has been 19,289 since 1995. If it's so lucrative to own an arena, you'd think the Flames would renovate it and keep it modern/up to date.

2013 flood repair ring a bell? Compressing 5 months of work into 2? With crews in there within 2 days after the flood?

The refurb in 2004 of the nosebleeds, which were closed in the late 90's, and not opened until easrly 2004 when it looked as it the Flames needed.

Also, as an example, the ice plant has been replaced 4 times in the life of the building. It can't be made any better than it is, given everything else with the rest of the building, but its just as expensive to build and maintain in a brand new building.

If the public HAS to chip in for this, put the new arena somewhere in the SE near Stoney (like Glendale arena in Phoenix). Worthless land that can be given away. Don't give away lucrative land like West/East village.

-Coyotes are likely moving from Glendale, to somewhere else in Phoenix, given the terrible proximity to anything.

- Lucrative land with the right developer. They've lined up for the past 2 decades and all fallen short when its time to put money down, not just pretty drawings (and Canals, just like Amsterdam!) on the East Village.

- West Village has had two car lots on it and a now shell of a building once a bus station, for the past 30+ years. Oh, and it has contaminated soil that has to be cleaned up. Lucrative indeed.

[DJones]

Why would Flames ownership be expected to pay for the reclamation anyway?

From what I understand that is the fault of the corporation that put the cerosene there and the city that allowed it to sit there for 50 years.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by DJones

Why would Flames ownership be expected to pay for the reclamation anyway?

From what I understand that is the fault of the corporation that put the cerosene there and the city that allowed it to sit there for 50 years.

Its a trade off. They want to help with the cleanup while the city helps pay for the building.

Otherwise the Flames could just build one arena anywhere

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by DJones

Why would Flames ownership be expected to pay for the reclamation anyway?

From what I understand that is the fault of the corporation that put the cerosene there and the city that allowed it to sit there for 50 years.

Agreed.

I can also live with the City paying for the reclamation of the land, and nothing for the development.

Basically, sign a contract with the Flames saying that if the city reclaims the land, the Flames will invest 1B+ into the area.

[Ozy_Flame]

I know it's been discussed in the past, but what is wrong with a penny tax from the city? Is it just not in a city's jurisdiction to do so? I don't see the reason why we can't have a permanent "special improvements" tax that adds a penny (or two) on every purchase. With the volume of retail spending in this city, it seems like a good idea (in theory). Alberta Venture even had an article on it a few years ago:

Asking Calgarians to voluntarily raise their own taxes might seem like the prelude to a comprehensive mental health examination, but George Brookman, Bruce Graham, Brian Felesky and the other members of Transformation Calgary, the group behind the idea, insist that they haven’t lost their minds. The so-called optional penny tax, which would effectively add a point to the GST and be collected along with the federal levy, would be tied to specific cultural and recreational infrastructure projects they believe taxpayers will be willing to support. “Calgary is in a different place today than it was 10 years ago,” says Bruce Graham, the president and CEO of Calgary Economic Development. “We’re now a global centre and we need to act and think like a global centre. We need the infrastructure of a global centre if we’re going to attract the best and the brightest.”

[GirlySports]

Thats the indy model. Added tax