CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[harmony]

this whole thing is a travesty. what a complete scam.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The deal has to happen right now to make sense.

Why are you quoting the guy who sold me my last car?

[nik-]

I'm assuming that the City will meet with Bettman to be polite, but it's pretty ridiculous to think he's going to just come in and sway the City on this. Or even provide any new information.

[curves2000]

I was only able to catch part of the live streaming of the speech but a few of the things that stood out for me was this.

1) The hardcore sell job being done by the NHL shows me there appears to be significant pushback from specific members of city council and or the planning commission.

2) I am not sure the specific comparisons to the revitalization of cities like downtown Edmonton, Detriot and Washington, DC are exactly accurate. The current Stampede grounds and surrounding areas although not pretty, are not filled with decaying buildings, poor safety records and economic dead zones.

Further to that, the current West Village and area is currently a bus station and a few car dealership. A few blocks in either direction is some of the most expensive and highly sought after real estate in Calgary. Areas like Kensington, Scarborough, Sunalta etc are not in the same category as downtown Detriot or downtown Edmonton.

There was some talk about hosting large-scale events such as the NHL draft, All-Star games etc and how the "dream" to do so doesn't match the reality of the current state of the Saddledome. Call me naive but has the process of selecting teenage hockey players change that much in the 15/16 years since Calgary hosted the draft in 2000? I mean players and their families sit in the stands, management and coaches sit on the floor in tables and chairs and the media are in various parts of the building. Wouldn't the fact that the Dome was built to have Olympic-sized ice ( a rarity in NHL buildings) and the fact that large sections of the lower level being able to be folded and placed away give us an advantage to having a larger floor surface to have media and NHL team reps ?? I am in favor of a new building in the future for the city 100% but the notion that downtown Calgary and the Saddledome not being "viable" to host an NHL draft is offensive. Last time I checked we have 4 star hotels, a safe and clean downtown area and the Dome has a roof and "world class" electricity. The last comment was made tongue in cheek.

In any event those are a few of my thoughts from the 15 minutes or so I was able to listen.

[dammage79]

^ the draft and ASG are big time revenue generators for the host cities. This shouldn't come as a surprise.

I know Bettman came in to do a cheerleading routine today to get behind one of his clubs push for a new building, it's big money for the team and league. But he's not wrong at all in what he said.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I was only able to catch part of the live streaming of the speech but a few of the things that stood out for me was this.

1) The hardcore sell job being done by the NHL shows me there appears to be significant pushback from specific members of city council and or the planning commission.

2) I am not sure the specific comparisons to the revitalization of cities like downtown Edmonton, Detriot and Washington, DC are exactly accurate. The current Stampede grounds and surrounding areas although not pretty, are not filled with decaying buildings, poor safety records and economic dead zones.

Further to that, the current West Village and area is currently a bus station and a few car dealership. A few blocks in either direction is some of the most expensive and highly sought after real estate in Calgary. Areas like Kensington, Scarborough, Sunalta etc are not in the same category as downtown Detriot or downtown Edmonton.

There was some talk about hosting large-scale events such as the NHL draft, All-Star games etc and how the "dream" to do so doesn't match the reality of the current state of the Saddledome. Call me naive but has the process of selecting teenage hockey players change that much in the 15/16 years since Calgary hosted the draft in 2000? I mean players and their families sit in the stands, management and coaches sit on the floor in tables and chairs and the media are in various parts of the building. Wouldn't the fact that the Dome was built to have Olympic-sized ice ( a rarity in NHL buildings) and the fact that large sections of the lower level being able to be folded and placed away give us an advantage to having a larger floor surface to have media and NHL team reps ?? I am in favor of a new building in the future for the city 100% but the notion that downtown Calgary and the Saddledome not being "viable" to host an NHL draft is offensive. Last time I checked we have 4 star hotels, a safe and clean downtown area and the Dome has a roof and "world class" electricity. The last comment was made tongue in cheek.

In any event those are a few of my thoughts from the 15 minutes or so I was able to listen.

I cannot imagine this speech being any different than the ones he has spouted in other cities. A new building obviously benefits the NHL as a business.

In the end, he spoke about what he could. ASG and draft as carrots. The "longterm viability" as a stick. Finally, the "lets get the city behind this". He also noted how much people in Calgary want this!

No mention of the economics, the proposal or any of that; but, really, that isnt his job to sell us on the financials. He's here to sell the emotional aspect of the NHL and the Flames.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by dammage79

^ the draft and ASG are big time revenue generators for the host cities. This shouldn't come as a surprise.

I know Bettman came in to do a cheerleading routine today to get behind one of his clubs push for a new building, it's big money for the team and league. But he's not wrong at all in what he said.

So let's hurry into an ill conceived money pit so we can host something every 10-20 years?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Yoho

So let's hurry into an ill conceived money pit so we can host something every 10-20 years?

OMG, Did I freaking say that? No.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by dammage79

OMG, Did I freaking say that? No.

Ok my apologies, My impression was that Betman was trying to dangle that carrot as meaningful reason to get the shovels in the ground.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not sure how they can specify a 5 year timeline when no one has any idea how long it would take to cleanup the mess, let alone deal with road realignment. But hey! Good guess! This thing is a farce. Give us money so we can make more money.

He said at the best, if things start right now, with a 12-24 month clean up period, and 3 years' construction, opening day would be in five years.

Thus, he said that things need to start asap, as the longer we wait to start, the further behind the 'dome gets.

He stated that in his 23 years as Commissioner, he has seen, or will see within the next couple of years, the opening or significant upgrade of 29 arenas, leaving the 'dome as the oldest.

[Southside]

I can't help but get the sense there is little discussion taking place behind closed doors and a whole lot of politics going on in public. That can't bode well for the project. I can't help but wonder how long until we see Option B.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Southside

I can't help but get the sense there is little discussion taking place behind closed doors and a whole lot of politics going on in public. That can't bode well for the project. I can't help but wonder how long until we see Option B.

I think one thing we need to consider is the longevity of stadium deals and the owners' ability to wait it out for the best deal.

Many stadium negotiations take YEARS, decades even.

You cannot underestimate the ability of an owner to wait it out for the best possible deal. Mayors and Councillors come and go, along with their agendas, whereas the Flames/Oilers/Cowboys/Marlins and their owners stay constant with the same agenda (yes, owners sell but the new ones take up the same agenda = free money)

While the Flames can talk about getting this thing started, they won't take a bad deal just to wrap this up.

Unfortunately, the way the Flames have proposed CalgaryNEXT, they do not look like they will give way and pay 100% of the cost; however, a sufficient and longstanding opposition can help.

This thing won't be decided for years and as long as the Flames can squeeze every last public dollar out of the City/Province/Feds/taxpayer, they will continue to persist.

[HotHotHeat]

I have officially done a full 180 on the need for a new arena.

Nenshi has been an excellent mayor through this process, props to him.

Ken King should be out of work, though he seems to be an untouchable in the organization.

[Enoch Root]

Yes, the world has changed a great deal in the last 15 years - and a hell of a lot more since 1983.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Southside

I can't help but get the sense there is little discussion taking place behind closed doors and a whole lot of politics going on in public. That can't bode well for the project. I can't help but wonder how long until we see Option B.

Waiting for environmental report, as of right now there is nothing to discuss according to Nenshi.

[Cappy]

Bettman is on Fan 960 right now talking about CalgaryNEXT

I still don't understand how people buy the stuff he's selling.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Ken King should be out of work, though he seems to be an untouchable in the organization.

The Flames really need to bring in someone who is experienced with stadium development and/or real estate development. If a former senior associate with Populous/HOK or Concord Pacific was leading this project, things would be much smoother even if not much further advanced.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Addick

The Flames really need to bring in someone who is experienced with stadium development and/or real estate development. If a former senior associate with Populous/HOK or Concord Pacific was leading this project, things would be much smoother even if not much further advanced.

I think they used King as a conduit to the hockey team. We all associate Ken with the Flames. Again, I think he is a way to tie in the emotional impact of the Flames as a team, rather than a wealthy company seeking taxpayer subsidies.

It's only a matter of time until we see Lanny McDonald and a since-retired Jarome Iginla push CalgaryNEXT.

[hockey.modern]

From Nenshi:

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

From Nenshi:

Sick burn. He's going to get major Speaker's Corner cred for that one.