[News] Upd: Drouin decides to sit out until trade is completed. Lightning suspend him. - Page 46 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Enoch Root · 01-10-2016, 01:19 PM

There is no question that Bennett is worth more than Drouin. Is it 'close' league wide? Yes, because they are both young, top-tier draft picks.

But Bennett is a C, is bigger, is already a full-time player at 19, can play defense, is far more physical, and has demonstrated that he is very high on the coachability scale.

Would Yzerman start there? Of course. But he knows he isn't getting a Bennett back for Drouin.

Fabbri and a 1st sounds about right. Fabbri would probably be considered one tier down from Bennett and Drouin. Adding a 1st (remember, STL's 1st would likely be 25-30th overall) would be a GREAT return for Tampa.

I would expect more like Fabbri + a 2nd. Or maybe a bigger trade that also included other players.

Enoch Root · 01-10-2016, 01:23 PM

With respect to Yzerman being in the driver's seat: no, he isn't.

Are there plenty of interested teams? Of course. But no matter what Yzerman states publicly, he HAS to trade Drouin. He knows it, and every other GM knows it.

Therefore, the offers will reflect that. The 'bidding' will ensure that the offer rises to something decent, and he won't have to settle for scraps. But it DOES NOT put him in the driver's seat.

Fire of the Phoenix · 01-10-2016, 01:28 PM

The only thing that will take Yzerman out of the driver's seat is if Drouin starts struggling in the AHL. Assuming that doesn't happen, he has months and months to get what he wants. I'm not saying he's going to bend someone over but I think the chances of someone not paying a premium are somewhere around zero.

Dr. Doom · 01-10-2016, 01:40 PM

Anyone else see Yzerman talking to Stroumbo yesterday?

Dude looked stressssssseeeeddd....

Strange Brew · 01-10-2016, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

With respect to Yzerman being in the driver's seat: no, he isn't.

Are there plenty of interested teams? Of course. But no matter what Yzerman states publicly, he HAS to trade Drouin. He knows it, and every other GM knows it.

Therefore, the offers will reflect that. The 'bidding' will ensure that the offer rises to something decent, and he won't have to settle for scraps. But it DOES NOT put him in the driver's seat.

I disagree. Tons of examples of exceptional returns when there is a guy that wants to be traded, or a guy the organization wants to move. Almost all trades are like this - someone looking to move an asset they don't value as much as others.

The "drivers seat" is all about supply and demand. The supply of young, elite potential players is very low. The demand is very high. Yzerman will get a very solid return IMO.

TangerZ · 01-10-2016, 01:54 PM

Drouin will be an offensive star. IMO BT should consider any deal as long as it doesn't involve our first rounder or anyone of our core players Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton, Brodie, or Gio. The kid will be good.

powderjunkie · 01-10-2016, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But no matter what Yzerman states publicly, he HAS to trade Drouin.

Why? I would say he more/less has to trade him eventually, as he is clearly not someone he wants to build his franchise around, but there is definitely no rush. His value is far from max right now, and it certainly can go up or down. Unless Drouin struggles in the AHL for the rest of the year, his value is going to be higher in the off season.

It is in Yzerman's, and frankly all of the GMs' best interests to not bow to pressure from a player on an ELC...at least not immediately.

Enoch Root · 01-10-2016, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Why? I would say he more/less has to trade him eventually, as he is clearly not someone he wants to build his franchise around, but there is definitely no rush. His value is far from max right now, and it certainly can go up or down. Unless Drouin struggles in the AHL for the rest of the year, his value is going to be higher in the off season.

It is in Yzerman's, and frankly all of the GMs' best interests to not bow to pressure from a player on an ELC...at least not immediately.

He doesn't have to trade him before the summer, but it is a team distraction right now, so it would help.

And he definitely needs to trade him by the summer. Next year is Drouin's final season of his ELC, and it is the 3rd season of his pre-UFA status. His value would be less next year than it is this year.

Yes, his value can go up or down going forward, but really, what is going to make it go up? Everyone knows that Drouin has offensive talent. Tearing up the AHL isn't going to change perceptions much.

Conversely, what if he doesn't dominate in the A?

The bottom line, IMO, is that Drouin is not going to play for Tampa. And the longer this goes on, the more opportunity there is for things to deteriorate further. His value isn't going to go up.

JiriHrdina · 01-10-2016, 02:16 PM

I think that's a lot of wishful thinking. As long as there is demand and Yzerman is in control - he should be able to get value.

Enoch Root · 01-10-2016, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think that's a lot of wishful thinking. As long as there is demand and Yzerman is in control - he should be able to get value.

I never said he wouldn't get value - in fact, I said he would.

What I was arguing was that he isn't in the driver's seat.

JiriHrdina · 01-10-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I never said he wouldn't get value - in fact, I said he would.

What I was arguing was that he isn't in the driver's seat.

OK I guess I view those things as being largely the same.

jayswin · 01-10-2016, 02:28 PM

So if I'm following correctly, Yzerman will get good value from the backseat?

Enoch Root · 01-10-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

OK I guess I view those things as being largely the same.

Not they aren't. 'Driver's seat' implies that Yzerman is in control and is poised to win the trade and get a great return.

Driver's seat is pretty much the best case scenario.

The opposite is being over a barrel, and getting little to nothing in return.

'Value' can be a pretty wide range in between those two extremes, where the return is reasonable.

Enoch Root · 01-10-2016, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayswin

So if I'm following correctly, Yzerman will get good value from the backseat?

Wow. Does everyone think in the extreme? Does no one understand that most things take place in between extremes? That everything isn't black or white?

Jason14h · 01-10-2016, 02:46 PM

When a player demands a trade the team with that player is never in the driver's seat.

When you are trading a player who hasn't demanded a trade it is a much better place to be!

Strange Brew · 01-10-2016, 02:49 PM

I think you are splitting hairs with respect to wording. In your scenario, everyone who lists a house or sells a product is not "in the drivers seat" because the buyer controls whether they can always walk away.

I would argue the guy that is selling a highly prized asset (low supply, high demand) meets the definition of drivers seat anytime something is being bought and sold.

Fire of the Phoenix · 01-10-2016, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

When a player demands a trade the team with that player is never in the driver's seat.

When you are trading a player who hasn't demanded a trade it is a much better place to be!

How many potential trade partners are going to say "the kid wants out... take it or leave it."

"Look Stevie, I know the kid has you over a barrel here, so this is all I'm willing to offer."

Damn. If only there were a dozen or so other offers to turn to.

Enoch Root · 01-10-2016, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

How many potential trade partners are going to say "the kid wants out... take it or leave it."

"Look Stevie, I know the kid has you over a barrel here, so this is all I'm willing to offer."

Damn. If only there were a dozen or so other offers to turn to.

But you don't see any grey area between your extreme and being in the driver's seat?

Fire of the Phoenix · 01-10-2016, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But you don't see any grey area between your extreme and being in the driver's seat?

Sure I do. I just think it's a lot closer to "driver's seat" than "over a barrel". If it was a spectrum, I would put it at 80-90% towards the driver's seat end.

People are really blowing the fact that he demand is public out of proportion. The biggest obstacle for Yzerman is that Drouin is unproven. The fact that he wants out means nothing IMO. If a rival tries to go there, he will find himself out of the bidding.

Flash Walken · 01-10-2016, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think you are splitting hairs with respect to wording. In your scenario, everyone who lists a house or sells a product is not "in the drivers seat" because the buyer controls whether they can always walk away.

I would argue the guy that is selling a highly prized asset (low supply, high demand) meets the definition of drivers seat anytime something is being bought and sold.

The fact Yzerman has no timeline to deal with either makes me question this 'not in the driver's seat' nonsense.

Drouin is under contract for another year after that and then would be an RFA holdout.

If Yzerman isn't in the driver seat, who is?