[News] Upd: Drouin decides to sit out until trade is completed. Lightning suspend him.

[Bar-Down]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Your opinion of ranking Andersson last is fine, but that summary is entirely biased. It's more of a justification of your opinion than it is an honest evaluation of those prospects.

How so? I don't think anything I said is incorrect.

To be fair, I added Hickey's stats and he has a higher pt/game pace right now than he did last year.
Hickey:
2014/15 = 0.41 pts/game
2015/16 (so far) = 0.44 pts/game

I didn't bother showing Kylingtons pts/game as he is in a completely different league this year.

Kylington is playing in the AHL and improving his defensive game as well as putting up points as an 18 year old. However, didn't get selected to Team Sweden.

Hickey on a slightly higher pt/game pace and was selected to the world junior team.

Andersson is playing well but his points per game are down at this current point in time and he didn't get selected to Team Sweden.

I'm not trying to be biased. Hickey is probably my favourite Flames prospect right now and I would rank them:
1.Kylington
2.Hickey
3.Andersson

However, they are all very good prospects

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Bar-Down

How so? I don't think anything I said is incorrect.

To be fair, I added Hickey's stats and he has a higher pt/game pace right now than he did last year.
Hickey:
2014/15 = 0.41 pts/game
2015/16 (so far) = 0.44 pts/game

I didn't bother showing Kylingtons pts/game as he is in a completely different league this year.

Kylington is playing in the AHL and improving his defensive game as well as putting up points as an 18 year old. However, didn't get selected to Team Sweden.

Hickey on a slightly higher pt/game pace and was selected to the world junior team.

Andersson is playing well but his points per game are down at this current point in time and he didn't get selected to Team Sweden.

I'm not trying to be biased. Hickey is probably my favourite Flames prospect right now and I would rank them:
1.Kylington
2.Hickey
3.Andersson

However, they are all very good prospects

Then in that case I guess your rankings should be:

1. Kylington
2. Hickey
3. Ollas Mattsson

Amirite?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Andersson ranked in the top 10 of the 2015 draft as well before the season started? 9th IIRC?

Drouin is definitely an intriguing target. Know who he would be lethal with? Bennett. Drouin is full of piss and vinegar as well - he is very physical for his size - or at least was in Juniors. People forget that most scouting resources out there had him pegged as the most talented player available in the draft.

With that being said, he hasn't really helped himself stick in the NHL. Lots of opportunity for him - especially with MSL gone and Stamkos could really have used a player like Drouin (and they tried him there). He has had opportunities, but he has failed to move up.

Gaudreau worked his way out of Hartley's doghouse early on in his rookie year. Monahan had times where he was very sheltered and played few minutes. Those guys worked themselves out. Baertschi didn't. Is Drouin still a can't miss top-line superstar winger in the making, who just hasn't got a real chance yet? Or is he just a disappointment? Is he a Gaudreau? Is he a Baertschi?

I am not sure Kylington is worth finding that out. I disagree in that Kylington should be a protected asset (untouchable). I rank him miles ahead of Andersson and Hickey - and I am very high on both. I just see Kylington as a franchise-level D in the making. He dropped due to perceived attitude issues and consistency issues, not because of his offensive ceiling. I think he has come a long ways in proving the doubters wrong.

Still, it is Drouin. He may very well be a kid who outshines even Johnny Hockey if given a chance and some time. He was that highly rated.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Andersson ranked in the top 10 of the 2015 draft as well before the season started? 9th IIRC?

Drouin is definitely an intriguing target. Know who he would be lethal with? Bennett. Drouin is full of piss and vinegar as well - he is very physical for his size - or at least was in Juniors. People forget that most scouting resources out there had him pegged as the most talented player available in the draft.

With that being said, he hasn't really helped himself stick in the NHL. Lots of opportunity for him - especially with MSL gone and Stamkos could really have used a player like Drouin (and they tried him there). He has had opportunities, but he has failed to move up.

Gaudreau worked his way out of Hartley's doghouse early on in his rookie year. Monahan had times where he was very sheltered and played few minutes. Those guys worked themselves out. Baertschi didn't. Is Drouin still a can't miss top-line superstar winger in the making, who just hasn't got a real chance yet? Or is he just a disappointment? Is he a Gaudreau? Is he a Baertschi?

I am not sure Kylington is worth finding that out. I disagree in that Kylington should be a protected asset (untouchable). I rank him miles ahead of Andersson and Hickey - and I am very high on both. I just see Kylington as a franchise-level D in the making. He dropped due to perceived attitude issues and consistency issues, not because of his offensive ceiling. I think he has come a long ways in proving the doubters wrong.

Still, it is Drouin. He may very well be a kid who outshines even Johnny Hockey if given a chance and some time. He was that highly rated.

The interesting thing is if Drouin and Bennett have chemistry other teams would have that much more worry about and not just Johnny.

Drouin may just need a few younger guys he can relate to and who can mesh with his skill level. Because this team is young and learning to play the right way. Drouin would likely fit right in and want to work as hard as they do. The vets on this team have done a good job to make Johnny and Monahan feel welcome and part of the team, even when they make mistakes. I think this would be a perfect opportunity for Drouin and has the potential to take the team to the next level. A strong defense and a balanced attack on offense.

Definitely could be a game changer and worth the risk to give pieces to get him.

[TheOnlyBilko]

Don't trade our #1 pick this year, too risky unless protected which Yzerman then wouldn't want

[Tinordi]

If Kylington is the main piece going back for Drouin you make that trade without really thinking about it.

[PeteMoss]

Regarding that Kylington most AHL points as an 18 year old defenseman stat - sounds way more impressive than it actually is.

According to this tweet - https://twitter.com/coreypronman/sta...11080679493633 - there's only been six 18 year old d-man in the AHL since 1992. Of those six - only two went on to have NHL careers - Lindholm and Voynov.

I mean its better than being kicked in the face, but if you were super elite you'd be in the NHL and everyone else would be back in juniors or their home country playing.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Regarding that Kylington most AHL points as an 18 year old defenseman stat - sounds way more impressive than it actually is.

According to this tweet - https://twitter.com/coreypronman/sta...11080679493633 - there's only been six 18 year old d-man in the AHL since 1992. Of those six - only two went on to have NHL careers - Lindholm and Voynov.

I mean its better than being kicked in the face, but if you were super elite you'd be in the NHL and everyone else would be back in juniors or their home country playing.

The other way to look at it is 33% of 18-year old AHL d-men go on to be, not just effective, but very good NHL defencemen. This goes up to 100% if you shrink the timeline to 'since the '05 lockout.'

Also, it's worth pointing out that both of the players: Voynov and Lindholm were European, just like Kylington.

[Poe969]

Lindholm and Voynov aren't chopped liver though. If (Buzz)Kylington started off rough and is steadily improving then I think we have reason to be excited. The kid is clearly trending upwards and I still think he'll show why he was originally rated so high.

I'd rather trade Hickey

[Toonage]

Thanked for calling him Buzz. I want that to stick.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It's like people don't realize the Blackhawks had Hossa, the Bruins had Chara, the Kings had Mitchell, the Penguins had Gonchar, the Red Wings had Lidstrom. Gio is a huge part of this team's FUTURE even if he's old.

I want Drouin but you don't build a championship stacking up a bunch of dangling wingers and 22 year olds. That's how you build the Edmonton Oilers.

Meh. I wouldn't trade Giordano straight across for Druin but if Yzerman threw in a 2nd round pick or a goaltender I would take hard look at it. Wouldn't be popular but IMO it would be a short term pain for long term gain as it's great to see Gio playing better but the fact is his deal hasn't kicked in yet and he's not going to be a $6 million defenseman in a few years. I think it's pretty clear he's been surpassed by Brodie as the teams most important defenseman and unloading that contract means the team can likely keep Russell around for a few years to help as the team breaks in some of their prospect defensemen.

Bottom line is that I'm all about 2-3 years in the future as today the team is a middling, rebuilding team that isn't close to being a legit cup contender. Druin is likely going to look a lot better on this team in a couple of years than Gio will. It goes back to the old NFL management being far ahead of the NHL when it comes to managing the salary cap as it's all about paying your players in their prime top dollar not older, declining veteran players.

[Jason14h]

I wouldn't trade Giordano straight across for Druin but if Yzerman threw in a 2nd round pick or a goaltender I would take hard look at it.

The always overated 2nd round pick is what would push you over the edge to consider!

A 60th pick overall hold basically zero real value.

The continued over-rating of draft picks always amuses me!

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The always overated 2nd round pick is what would push you over the edge to consider!

A 60th pick overall hold basically zero real value.

The continued over-rating of draft picks always amuses me!

Tbf two 2nd round picks were part of the package that got us Hamilton....

He might be overrating them but you are under rating them.

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Thanked for calling him Buzz. I want that to stick.

Buzz Shillington? I don't get it.

[Poe969]

it's pronounced shillington, but it'll always be Killington to me

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by driveway

The other way to look at it is 33% of 18-year old AHL d-men go on to be, not just effective, but very good NHL defencemen. This goes up to 100% if you shrink the timeline to 'since the '05 lockout.'

Also, it's worth pointing out that both of the players: Voynov and Lindholm were European, just like Kylington.

This Kylington discussion is getting a bit ridiculous. He has nine point this year. Let's let him finish the year and see where he ends up before proclaiming him the best eighteen year old player to not turn nineteen during the season since 2005.

I'm excited for the kid but it's a long season and too early to hand out manufactured superlatives.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by driveway

The other way to look at it is 33% of 18-year old AHL d-men go on to be, not just effective, but very good NHL defencemen. This goes up to 100% if you shrink the timeline to 'since the '05 lockout.'

Also, it's worth pointing out that both of the players: Voynov and Lindholm were European, just like Kylington.

The whole list is European. You can't play in the AHL as an 18 year if you play in the CHL.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by edslunch

This Kylington discussion is getting a bit ridiculous. He has nine point this year. Let's let him finish the year and see where he ends up before proclaiming him the best eighteen year old player to not turn nineteen during the season since 2005.

I'm excited for the kid but it's a long season and too early to hand out manufactured superlatives.

Agreed - to argue that 33% of 18 year olds playing in the AHL went on to become very solid NHLers is ridiculous. Does he also have a 66% chance of flaming out and never making the NHL? Or a 12.5% chance of ended up in the KHL due to legal issues? The sample size is WAY too small to mean anything. All we know is he's a recent 2nd round pick...and MAY carry enough value to get something equivalent to that of a late 1st rounder now. Droiun is worth more than that.

[StrykerSteve]

You aren't getting Drouin for Kylington, not unless Tampa had him rated really high on their draft board and even then, you'd still need to add.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I rank him miles ahead of Andersson and Hickey

I wouldn't. I mean with those guys I see it as your classic floor vs. ceiling argument. Kylington has the highest Ceiling and lowest floor, Hickey the highest floor but lowest ceiling, and Andersson somewhere between the two. Which one someone were to consider "ahead" is entirely down to your risk tolarance.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

If Kylington is the main piece going back for Drouin you make that trade without really thinking about it.

Yeah, no doubt. You make that trade in a heartbeat... but Yzerman wouldn't.