Uber to Resume in Calgary December 6 2016

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

For the most part, yes.

When push comes to shove, some here see the taxi industry as the Oilers and Uber as the Flames. I see the taxi industry as the Oilers and Uber as the Canucks. They both suck and I hope they both fail. Then the marketplace will be open for something better than either.

Like what?

Not saying Uber is the best system. But outside of a completely public and subsidized system, with huge infrastructure overhauls, what would be the most effective replacement for something like taxis?

Uber is a product of the marketplace. You can't just crush it with legalese and government restrictions, or you're just going against your own point and not allowing the marketplace to compete. The market IS open for something better than Uber or taxis, but nothing has come up.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, I merely dismiss the fanatical devotion to Uber.

Some of the solutions are already in the works - namely an offering of insurance intended for part time drivers as Uber/Lyft/Other drivers are intended to be. Though I would suggest anyone who chooses to drive full time should be held to the same insurance standard of any other taxi.

Obviously I don't support price gouging, so I do think there should be limits on how high "surge pricing" can go - and at the same time, other taxi companies should be given the same limits.

The legal questions over employee vs. contractor, minimum wage requirements, expense reimbursements, EI, etc. are all before courts, so not much can be said about those until the legal decisions come down.

The medallion system, obviously, needs to either go or be significantly reworked.

I take issue with these legal proceedings. Isn't this exactly how cab companies are run? The drivers are usually independent contractors with no benefits, expense reimbursements etc.

Uber runs their business in the same way Checker Cabs would, and while I agree that they have used bullying tactics to force their way into many jurisdictions, they offer a product that has the public wanting more.

The Uber issue may soon hail the end of the medallion system, etc. allowing a better system to take its place with more competition and some, but not all, regulation.

[TheAlpineOracle]

What some people seem to be missing here is that most people in this city aren't just some pom pom waiving Uber fan that want to allow them to operate under no rules. Most people would have preferred regulation prior to entry. That said, that wasn't going to happen in Calgary with the Taxi lobbyists and City Hall in bed with each other. They've had 30 years to clean up this mess and haven't done a goddamn thing. Uber bullying their way in to the market has forced them to make changes that they have been resisting for years. The changes will increase the quality of service the customers receive, so people are a lot more willing to turn a blind eye to Uber's bull in a china shop way of doing business.

Had Uber not done what they did, there would be ZERO change today or anything coming down the pipe.

[Resolute 14]

MattyC - As I said very early in this thread. I differentiate between the idea of Uber, which is generally good, and the company that is Uber, which is generally evil. When I say I want both to fail, I am referring to the actual entities, as opposed to ideas.

Cappy - I'll admit that I don't really get why such drivers would be classified as employees rather than independent contractors. However, it is undeniable that the signs are pointing to (American) courts viewing people working for companies within the sharing economy in that fashion. Uber has lost a couple key battles in this regard, though they were not precedent setting. Homejoy, a cleaning company working under a similar idea, shut down entirely as a result, and other companies have given up the fight and began treating such people as employees.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

MattyC - As I said very early in this thread. I differentiate between the idea of Uber, which is generally good, and the company that is Uber, which is generally evil. When I say I want both to fail, I am referring to the actual entities, as opposed to ideas.

Cappy - I'll admit that I don't really get why such drivers would be classified as employees rather than independent contractors. However, it is undeniable that the signs are pointing to (American) courts viewing people working for companies within the sharing economy in that fashion. Uber has lost a couple key battles in this regard, though they were not precedent setting. Homejoy, a cleaning company working under a similar idea, shut down entirely as a result, and other companies have given up the fight and began treating such people as employees.

There is some pretty good CRA interpretations of employee vs. independent contractor available on their website. There is next to no chance an Uber driver would be considered an employee for Canadian tax purposes. Uber drivers own their car, set their time of work, determine their location, assume the chance of profit, assume the risk of loss, etc. Numerous past tax court cases in Canada would also point directly at drivers being independent contractors.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I take issue with these legal proceedings. Isn't this exactly how cab companies are run? The drivers are usually independent contractors with no benefits, expense reimbursements etc.

Uber runs their business in the same way Checker Cabs would, and while I agree that they have used bullying tactics to force their way into many jurisdictions, they offer a product that has the public wanting more.

The Uber issue may soon hail the end of the medallion system, etc. allowing a better system to take its place with more competition and some, but not all, regulation.

Anyone else not have a problem with Uber bullying taxi industries?

[Dan02]

Resolute I don't think anyone in this thread is saying Uber is the best and we want uber in particular. But we sure as hell want change, and if it takes Uber coming in and ignoring the rules and forcing change so be it. If other companies be it Lyft or whoever, come in and do a better/more ethical job then Uber, then by all means Uber can die and rot in hell.

But right now there's only one company that's forcing change and for that they get my thanks.

And I've never understood how some of these american courts are determining they're employees though, seem to pass every test I can think of for contractors. Atleast from the CRAs requirements it would seem a Uber driver would pass every test to be considered a contractor.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

There is some pretty good CRA interpretations of employee vs. independent contractor available on their website. There is next to no chance an Uber driver would be considered an employee for Canadian tax purposes. Uber drivers own their car, set their time of work, determine their location, assume the chance of profit, assume the risk of loss, etc. Numerous past tax court cases in Canada would also point directly at drivers being independent contractors.

No, but if Uber loses the battle in the US, they are probably done for.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Anyone else not have a problem with Uber bullying taxi industries?

As long as the taxi industry continues to tank itself by not allowing new licenses and the city stays behind it to the point that it's a safety issue for people getting home on weekends, no, I have no problem with it. No more than I had a problem with Napster bullying a music industry built on overcharging consumers and underpaying artists. Or Netflix for steering into the skid of online streaming rather than joining a useless fight to stop downloading.

These industries are evolving at a ripping pace with advent of the internet and smartphones/apps. Don't have a lot of sympathy for outdated industries trying to squeeze markets and governments.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, but if Uber loses the battle in the US, they are probably done for.

Probably, but some other company will start up in Canada doing the same thing. It's not like it's a hard technology to mimic.

[polak]

Originally Posted by MattyC

As long as the taxi industry continues to tank itself by not allowing new licenses and the city stays behind it to the point that it's a safety issue for people getting home on weekends, no, I have no problem with it. No more than I had a problem with Napster bullying a music industry built on overcharging consumers and underpaying artists. Or Netflix for steering into the skid of online streaming rather than joining a useless fight to stop downloading.

These industries are evolving at a ripping pace with advent of the internet and smartphones/apps. Don't have a lot of sympathy for outdated industries trying to squeeze markets and governments.

Personally, I still can't get over how the refrigeration industry bullied the Ice trade.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I also fully expect that whatever legislation the City of Calgary comes out with, that it will be very punitive towards Uber in an attempt to keep them out of the market once the insurance issue settles itself. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by polak

Personally, I still can't get over how the refrigeration industry bullied the Ice trade.

Lord knows they tried to fight. Remember how the government restricted the sales of refrigerators so as to not completely wipe out the ice traders all at once, and give them a slow death instead? Getting a license to sell a fridge was like pulling teeth and dangerous. Those ice traders had some scary carving tools that could be easily used for...persuasion. Thankfully, the brave souls at GE pioneered on.

Remember travel agents? Bank tellers? Blockbuster? Those evil basterds at ATM inc, Expedia, and Netflix think they can just come up with something better and take away their business/jobs? The nerve.

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I also fully expect that whatever legislation the City of Calgary comes out with, that it will be very punitive towards Uber in an attempt to keep them out of the market once the insurance issue settles itself. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

http://www.660news.com/2016/01/06/in...-backing-uber/

The insurance issue will be solved soon enough at least in Ontario first.

[Dan02]

Could Uber itself not solve this insurance issue by itself by charging a fee per ride or per KM just like car2go does? I'm sure there is some big insurance company who would like to scoop up all Ubers business in one fell swoop.

[Jason14h]

Probably, but some other company will start up in Canada doing the same thing. It's not like it's a hard technology to mimic

Well it kind of is, plus not easy to get the userbase, etc. There's a reason GM spent 500 million to get into bed with one of these companies.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/gm-lyft-1.3388500

[FNL]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Like what?

Not saying Uber is the best system. But outside of a completely public and subsidized system, with huge infrastructure overhauls, what would be the most effective replacement for something like taxis?

Uber is a product of the marketplace. You can't just crush it with legalese and government restrictions, or you're just going against your own point and not allowing the marketplace to compete. The market IS open for something better than Uber or taxis, but nothing has come up.

What you're looking for is LYFT. Same concept as Uber, better execution.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FNL

What you're looking for is LYFT. Same concept as Uber, better execution.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

I'm not sure how we could possibly not be using LYFT after you've spent 3 of your 8 posts on CP to tell us about them over the past few months. Might want to sprinkle a few more non-Lyft posts on the site so it isn't so obvious.

One thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is that while Uber gets all the press, and has been doing the heavy lifting as far as building the industry, LYFT is a formidable competitor, and in my experience a generally superior service. I haven't heard anything about LYFT coming to Calgary yet, but when they go head to head against Uber, they do pretty well. Drivers (who often drive both when they can) seem to prefer LYFT, too.

You mean, like LYFT?

Well, the same thing better, for about the same price...using the same drivers and cars.

What you're looking for is LYFT. Same concept as Uber, better execution

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well it kind of is, plus not easy to get the userbase, etc. There's a reason GM spent 500 million to get into bed with one of these companies.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/gm-lyft-1.3388500

Checker has seemed to do a pretty good job of copying it. Their app is very similar to Uber's.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Could Uber itself not solve this insurance issue by itself by charging a fee per ride or per KM just like car2go does? I'm sure there is some big insurance company who would like to scoop up all Ubers business in one fell swoop.

It would put them at risk in the whole Independant contractor thing.