Pope accused of anti-Islamic remarks

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Dirty Mr. Clean

The Pope was saying that Culture can use Religion and promote it through violence. He was using an example from the past. He was talking about how Religion doesn't teach violence the culture does. People need to pay more attention to context.

Unfortunately he forgets to add that Catholics and Muslims have forced themselves into their cultures. Its not like they simply sat back and let people choose for themselves?
Of course people will use it in a violent way...the dogma in both religions are full of hatred and violence.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Dirty Mr. Clean

People need to pay more attention to context.

That's true, but did the Pope consider the wider context of his remarks? I.e. did he consider how Muslims might react to the quotes, not only if it made contextual sense in his speech? Did he adequately preface that it was in fact only one example? Did he provide other examples? OR....

Considering context is great - as long as you consider all of it.

Cheers.

[pepper24]

Not great comments by the Pope especially considering the shape that the Catholic Church is in right now.

Hopefully this doesn't lead to riots in the Muslim world like the cartoon controversy.

[Cheese]

Unknown assailants threw fire bombs on Saturday at two churches in the West Bank city of Nablus, following a day of Palestinian protests against comments Pope Benedict made about Islam. No one was hurt. Jabi Saadeh, a member of the Anglican Church in the city, said about four or five masked men in a white car threw several fire bombs at the wall of the church, without causing damage.
A similar attack on a Greek Orthodox church in Nablus set ablaze one of its walls, leaving part of it charred. George Awad, head of the Greek Orthodox church, denounced what he called "a childish act."



Churches attacked

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said a Vatican statement on Saturday saying Pope Benedict was sorry for upsetting Muslims with his comments on Islam did not go far enough.


Apology not enough



Kind of funny that two organizations that are supposedly the vessels for peace in this world are always causing the most violent outrages! Quite frankly Im tiring of the comical stance always taken by the Muslim people. Taking to the streets, burning effigies, chanting. Truly a horrific sight/thought if one were to think that these two segments of religion may go to war against each other.
The Muslim people of Canada should make a stance and send a message that they are in no way connected with these imbeciles overseas...after all forgiveness and peace is the song that is sung the loudest.

[Azure]

Pretty much expected from the extreme Muslims.

In a way they just proved what the Pope was saying.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Azure

Pretty much expected from the extreme Muslims.

In a way they just proved what the Pope was saying.

Then someone says that again, others get upset, the same thing happens. Its a cylce.

Isn't one way to break the cycle to simply stop saying things like that?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Dirty Mr. Clean

The Pope was saying that Culture can use Religion and promote it through violence. He was using an example from the past. He was talking about how Religion doesn't teach violence the culture does. People need to pay more attention to context.

I'd be very curious to know how you get that out of the context. I've read through the entire lecture, and I don't see anywhere that the pope blames culture for using religion to promote violence. The passage of the essay is clearly a compare and contrast between Christianity and Islam: for Christianity, not to act in accordance to reason is contrary to God's nature; for Islam, God is transcendent, his will does not need to be rational, thus it encourages violence.

I don't see how you can take that comparison as anything less than a statement that Christianity is theologically, rationally, and morally superior to Islam. Again, I don't have any problem with talking about the violent history of Islam (and make no mistake, the pope is talking about history in this lecture); my beef is with him claiming moral and intellectual superiority on behalf of his church's legacy.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Then someone says that again, others get upset, the same thing happens. Its a cylce.

Isn't one way to break the cycle to simply stop saying things like that?

There are certain freedoms we value...like the freedom of speech. Why should I stop saying things like that?

[Cheese]

a bit more "extremism" by the Islamics today...

Gunmen killed an Italian nun at a children's hospital in Mogadishu on Sunday in an attack that drew immediate speculation of links to Muslim anger over the Pope's recent remarks on Islam.

Well heck that'll teach them damned Catholics eh? These are some of the idiotic things that happen when someone simply "says" something wrong...can you imagine what would entail if a Catholic accidently killed a Muslim?
I wonder if the Muslims ever heard of the saying...sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me!

Nun Killed

The Pope sparked the controversy when, in a speech to German university professors Tuesday, he cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Islam's founder, as "evil and inhuman."

As was mentioned above...its becoming obvious that there is truth in that quote.

[Azure]

Wow....I agree with Cheese from a religious POV. MUST be something supernatural about it.



Very well said though....its sad that the extreme Muslims are proving to a certain extent what the Pope said, as correct.

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by Cheese

a bit more "extremism" by the Islamics today...

Gunmen killed an Italian nun at a children's hospital in Mogadishu on Sunday in an attack that drew immediate speculation of links to Muslim anger over the Pope's recent remarks on Islam.

Well heck that'll teach them damned Catholics eh? These are some of the idiotic things that happen when someone simply "says" something wrong...can you imagine what would entail if a Catholic accidently killed a Muslim?
I wonder if the Muslims ever heard of the saying...sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me!

Nun Killed

The Pope sparked the controversy when, in a speech to German university professors Tuesday, he cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Islam's founder, as "evil and inhuman."

As was mentioned above...its becoming obvious that there is truth in that quote.

And burning a effigies of the pope in Pakistan or wherever? Can you imagine if someone in the states or something burned a effigies of muhammad?

Yet the pakistani gov't isn't being condemed for the actions of their people, nor are they being asked to apologize.

Dear god...

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Jayems

And burning a effigies of the pope in Pakistan or wherever? Can you imagine if someone in the states or something burned a effigies of muhammad?

Yet the pakistani gov't isn't being condemed for the actions of their people, nor are they being asked to apologize.

Dear god...

And they shouldn't be. You can understand your enemy, you should not have to be as dumb as they are to do so.

[jolinar of malkshor]

There is definately a double standard as to the degree of disrespect Non- Muslims are aloud to show Muslims and vice versa.

I have to say....all the people that keep yippin about how the Muslims are provoked into their actions. WHAT. Ya, maybe they are ****ed off about some dumb ass comment made. So WHAT.... That gives them no right what so ever to commit any violent acts...period. They want to protest about the comments fine...freedom of speech....all the power to them....but don't go around inciting hate.

[The Streak]

Alright, on this topic, even though the game is on the radio I think I'll jump on this one. So the article regarding this issue in the Edmonton Journal today opens with

"Some Radical Muslims called Saturday for Pope Benedict's death over recent remarks which critics said linked Islam with violence"

Way to shoot yourselves in the foot there muslims... crap sakes; kill someone for calling you violent, that's bound to change their opinion eh?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

There is definately a double standard as to the degree of disrespect Non- Muslims are aloud to show Muslims and vice versa.

I have to say....all the people that keep yippin about how the Muslims are provoked into their actions. WHAT. Ya, maybe they are ****ed off about some dumb ass comment made. So WHAT.... That gives them no right what so ever to commit any violent acts...period. They want to protest about the comments fine...freedom of speech....all the power to them....but don't go around inciting hate.

It is the same Danish Cartoon ugliness all over again.

Here is a comment on Captain's Quarters blog. I quote is because he is far more eloquent.

"Muslims are not interested in a Socratic dialogue, such as the kind proposed by Benedict in his speech, if one actually bothered to read it. They completely reject any notion of critical thinking when it comes to their doctrines, their laws, and their beliefs. They can make all the comments they want about Jews being descended from pigs and monkeys and the "polytheism" of Christians, but if anyone utters a word of scholarly criticism about Islam, the murders begin until someone admits that Islam is better than any other faith.

This drips with irony -- because Benedict spoke about precisely this impulse in his speech. It's conversion or submission by the sword all over again. "
end quote.


Just remember about the cartoons. Mohammed has been painted for centuries with not even a peep. Then a Imam added 4-5 cartoons to the Danish ones (to make them more insulting) and starts riots 2 months after the fact.

We are talking about a very backward culture.


(If you add up all the deaths in Iraq and multiply them by 100 you don't reach the number of dead in Sudan killed by Muslims. And that is the Christians....didn't even get started with the Dafur "black" Muslims)

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by HOZ

(If you add up all the deaths in Iraq and multiply them by 100 you don't reach the number of dead in Sudan killed by Muslims. And that is the Christians....didn't even get started with the Dafur "black" Muslims)

Well there's a statement that obviously false. Multiply the death toll in Iraq by 100, and you get about 4.3 million, about double the Christian population of the entire country of Sudan. Not trying to downplay what's going on in Darfur, but for god's sake, at least be remotely close with your numbers.

[HOZ]

Well I may be a bit off

2 million Christians and almost as many Muslims

[Cheese]

Al Qaeda militants in Iraq vowed war on "worshippers of the cross" and protesters burned a papal effigy on Monday over Pope Benedict's comments on Islam..

"We tell the worshipper of the cross (the Pope) that you and the West will be defeated, as is the case in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya," said a Web statement by the Mujahideen Shura Council

God will (help) Muslims to conquer Rome ... (May) God enable us to slit their throats, and make their money and descendants the bounty of the mujahideen

Militants vow War

So maybe the theists will get their Armageddon yet...I can see the rhetoric as both sides claim the other as Satan, all the while killing and maiming in the name of peace and love.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Well I may be a bit off

2 million Christians and almost as many Muslims

Are you saying that there have been 4 million deaths in Darfur thus far? You'll have to point me to where you're getting those stats; the figure I've commonly read is 400,000, with around 2 million people displaced in total. I also couldn't find any breakdown of the religion of victims, but it seems to me that given that only a small percentage of darfur is Christian, I would assume that the vast majority of the victims are muslim. Not saying your wrong, it's just that your numbers are very different than what I've read.

Back on topic, al-qaeda vowing vengence on the west? This is really not a new development. Most Islam leaders have called for cooler heads to prevail (including, surprisingly, Hamas). You've got a few hundred people burning an effigy in Basra, a city that's been central to the resistance in Iraq, and a senseless killing in Mogadishu, another city that's been embroiled in violence since the muslims tried to reclaim the city from the warlords. It's not like this is prompting the largely peaceful muslim masses to take up arms against the west; all those who are getting really angry are already involved in violent conflict against western powers or what they see as western-backed powers.

And the pope's apology was pretty half-assed. It was kinda like when you've been out drinking all night, and when your woman gets mad at you, you tell her you're sorry you made her angry. And maybe she accepts your apology, but if she's smart, she says, 'hey wait a minute, you didn't actually apologize for what you did, you only apologized for how I felt.'

[pepper24]

Al-Qaeda is now threatening the pope.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/eu....ap/index.html

Maybe I am reading this wrong but Muslims are taking offence to a quote saying they are violent religion by now preaching violence?