Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-05-2016, 09:21 PM   #21
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteTiger View Post
I am aware of that. I still wonder, if Japan did, how they'd adjust to the culture. It's a thought-exercise.
Not the same group, but here's a Turkish/Kurd clash outside the Turkish embassy in Tokyo.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201...urkish-embassy



I'm guessing the adjusting isn't going so well.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 09:22 PM   #22
PsYcNeT
Franchise Player
 
PsYcNeT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
Exp:
Default

Over/under on the term "savages" being used before the end of page 2.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
PsYcNeT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 09:22 PM   #23
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

savages

there.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
T@T
Old 01-05-2016, 09:43 PM   #24
chemgear
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Exp:
Default

Reminds me of the CBS reporter in Egypt.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/TV/0...gan.interview/

Logan was covering the celebration that erupted in Tahrir Square following the resignation of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on February 11. She reported for about an hour without any trouble.

The atmosphere in the square was festive, like a party, she said, until all of a sudden, it wasn't. An Arabic-speaking member of Logan's crew abruptly said she needed to leave.

"I was told later that they were saying, 'Let's take her pants off,'" said Logan, 40, about men in the crowd around her.


At first, Logan said she tried to yell, but that her screams "turned them into a frenzy."

"I didn't even know that they were beating me with flagpoles and sticks and things because I couldn't even feel that ... the sexual assault was all I could feel -- was their hands raping me over and over and over again."

Logan felt men pull her hair, trying to rip away her scalp and tear at her limbs, her muscles. Her clothes were shredded.

The brutal attack went on for some 25 minutes, CBS reported.

At some point, she was dragged by the mob until it was stopped by a fence, near to where a group of Egyptian women was sitting.

Finally, some Egyptian soldiers fought their way through the crowd with batons, Logan said. One threw her over his back and took her to a tank. She was reunited with her crew and soldiers drove them back to their hotel, CBS said.
chemgear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 09:47 PM   #25
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

The major problem with taking people on a first come first serve basis is that it encourages selfish people to come. People willing to step ahead of families who are actually in need. People willing to break immigration laws. People willing to lie to get what they want. You end up with a distilled group of the worst. These same selfish people are the people who are going to harass women or join a group like ISIS.

Now compound that with the way Germany has been actually dealing with it's refugee crisis. The response from Germany in setting up housing and jobs has been almost non-existent. So you've got a situation with a bunch of young men with nothing to do but start trouble. If you took large groups of young men from any race/religion, you'd see the same result. Idle hands.

I just watched a great Vice bit on how Germany has been using these vouchers to house people. Essentially each voucher is worth $40 and everyone who doesn't have permanent housing gets one everyday. The vouchers are supposed to pay for hostels. So what the hostel owners have been doing is cramming as many people as possible into a room, and then hiding everything when the inspectors come by. They then redeem the vouchers. Some are making millions.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure what Germany expected. That hundreds of thousands of people would just spontaneously find jobs and housing? Europe already had a problem with a growing extremist right wing in response to the EU. Now were likely to see them take their anger out on innocent refugees. This is all the result of short sighted politicians attempting to drum up support by making decisions without exploring the long term consequences.
blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 10:04 PM   #26
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
I think Frau Merkel is going to be toast.
Well Merkel is one of the most respected politicians around, I think she'll have some leeway.

The fact of the matter is, regardless of race, religion or creed, you put enough desperate dudes together in a confined area and bad things are going to happen.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans

If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
Old 01-05-2016, 10:20 PM   #27
pylon
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
The major problem with taking people on a first come first serve basis is that it encourages selfish people to come. People willing to step ahead of families who are actually in need. People willing to break immigration laws. People willing to lie to get what they want. You end up with a distilled group of the worst. These same selfish people are the people who are going to harass women or join a group like ISIS.

Now compound that with the way Germany has been actually dealing with it's refugee crisis. The response from Germany in setting up housing and jobs has been almost non-existent. So you've got a situation with a bunch of young men with nothing to do but start trouble. If you took large groups of young men from any race/religion, you'd see the same result. Idle hands.

I just watched a great Vice bit on how Germany has been using these vouchers to house people. Essentially each voucher is worth $40 and everyone who doesn't have permanent housing gets one everyday. The vouchers are supposed to pay for hostels. So what the hostel owners have been doing is cramming as many people as possible into a room, and then hiding everything when the inspectors come by. They then redeem the vouchers. Some are making millions.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure what Germany expected. That hundreds of thousands of people would just spontaneously find jobs and housing? Europe already had a problem with a growing extremist right wing in response to the EU. Now were likely to see them take their anger out on innocent refugees. This is all the result of short sighted politicians attempting to drum up support by making decisions without exploring the long term consequences.
Yet not one of these points justifies sexual assault on women.

It's almost as if you are blaming Germany for not creating a bunch of jobs. The fact they opened their borders to these people is already a life changing gift. What's the answer in your eyes? Lay off a bunch of German citizens so people who have contributed exactly zero to the country over the course of history have something to keep them from robbing and raping their citizens?
pylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 10:27 PM   #28
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Well its not as though they could have transported them all by train to nice orderly and organized temporary camps to segregate them from the regular population.

I dont think anybody is falling for that one again.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans

If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
Old 01-05-2016, 10:37 PM   #29
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pylon View Post
Yet not one of these points justifies sexual assault on women.

It's almost as if you are blaming Germany for not creating a bunch of jobs. The fact they opened their borders to these people is already a life changing gift. What's the answer in your eyes? Lay off a bunch of German citizens so people who have contributed exactly zero to the country over the course of history have something to keep them from robbing and raping their citizens?
I'm not justifying the acts of the assaulters or defending them in any way. I also stated that many (I don't mean the majority or even a large proportion) of the migrants are amoral people who are there because they are willing to break laws and step in front of people who genuinely need help.

The issue is that no one responded early enough to the crisis. Assad had been bombing protestors for years, ISIS had been operating for years, and everyone looked the other way. Then a natural and inevitable result of this, a child drowning as he tries to escape Syria, spurs a movement to accept hundreds of thousands of people unconditionally and without proper vetting. This was an attempt to undo the humanitarian disaster that was already there, but it was the wrong decision.

Instead of just letting millions of people into Europe, the proper course of action was to look for a real solution, and that will take a lot of time and genuine international cooperation. Unfortunately, during that time more people will suffer, but that's the consequence of not acting sooner. That's not the consequence of refusing to let in mass migrants. No matter how many mass migrants you let in, there will always be more until you address the issues creating those migrants. The people in Germany now aren't any better off now than they were in the refugee camp in Turkey. The massive flow of people attempting to get in hasn't waned either.

And I don't think this is just Germany's fault. It's the result of every world government acting selfishly and/or just looking the other way.

Last edited by blankall; 01-05-2016 at 10:40 PM.
blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 10:57 PM   #30
OMG!WTF!
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
The fact of the matter is, regardless of race, religion or creed, you put enough desperate dudes together in a confined area and bad things are going to happen.
I don't think "desperate dudes in a confined area" has much to do with group sexual assault. You have to assume college students, athletes, and rich kids are just as capable as desperate dudes. What does matter here is that globally there is probably a connection with gang rape and differing race; specifically most gang rapes are committed by people of the same race against people of a different race. Like sports teams and fraternities and armies, race creates a gang mentality.

Also, the same thing happened last year in the UK and was also covered up by the main media sources.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscr...l-correctness/

Quote:
The issue is that no one responded early enough to the crisis.
Most of these migrants aren't Syrian. There are oodles of North Africans, Central Asians and "others" in this group.

Last edited by OMG!WTF!; 01-05-2016 at 11:02 PM.
OMG!WTF! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 12:37 AM   #31
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
I don't think "desperate dudes in a confined area" has much to do with group sexual assault. You have to assume college students, athletes, and rich kids are just as capable as desperate dudes. What does matter here is that globally there is probably a connection with gang rape and differing race; specifically most gang rapes are committed by people of the same race against people of a different race. Like sports teams and fraternities and armies, race creates a gang mentality.

Also, the same thing happened last year in the UK and was also covered up by the main media sources.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscr...l-correctness/



Most of these migrants aren't Syrian. There are oodles of North Africans, Central Asians and "others" in this group.
You really can't draw a parallel with the Rotherham and Germany, wholly different situations.
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 04:34 AM   #32
T@T
Lifetime Suspension
 
T@T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Exp:
Default

I think I'll stay away from facebook this week.
T@T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 04:35 AM   #33
Scrambler
One of the Nine
 
Scrambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 福岡市
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik- View Post
Not the same group, but here's a Turkish/Kurd clash outside the Turkish embassy in Tokyo.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201...urkish-embassy



I'm guessing the adjusting isn't going so well.
Those aren't refugees, they are permanent residents of Japan with a Gaijin Card like me. Kurds fighting Turks in Japan may seem odd but it was a hot tempered situation at the time. Think of Egyptians vs Isrealis in Calgary (I think I can recall something along those lines awhile ago).

On that note, I have been here since 2012 and am adjusting just fine. Love it here, couldn't imagine being anywhere else really. 日本が大好き!
Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 06:46 AM   #34
burn_this_city
Franchise Player
 
burn_this_city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

This sounds like it could be a gypsy theft ring for all we know.
burn_this_city is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 07:15 AM   #35
FlamesAddiction
Franchise Player
 
FlamesAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

When I was in Athens, there was a group of African migrants going around using threats to get money from tourists. My wife and I experienced it first hand. Not just men though, women were involved.

The sad thing is that this behaviour hurts the peaceful migrants that want nothing more than to be integrated.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
FlamesAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 07:32 AM   #36
CliffFletcher
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city View Post
This sounds like it could be a gypsy theft ring for all we know.
Ripping women's panties off?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze View Post
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
CliffFletcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 08:10 AM   #37
2Stonedbirds
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Well, the article in the OP did state that they were perhaps using sexual assault as a distraction while they robbed people.

Makes sense right? I mean who would see petty theft coming when your being sexually assaulted?

What a joke.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
2Stonedbirds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 08:13 AM   #38
Hack&Lube
Atomic Nerd
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

When I was mugged in Brussels, the police said that it was likely Moroccan gangs/groups that operated in the area. It's a big issue in the EU where they have opened all their borders to aid commerce and their economy (trying to mirror the US) but it has also created a situation where a lot of migrants and crime can travel and expand freely.
Hack&Lube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 08:41 AM   #39
troutman
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
 
troutman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Crowsnest Pass
Exp:
Default

Having read about this and thinking on it some more, I have a number of questions.

Anti-muslim sentiment is high in Germany, especially amongst older and more conservative ethnic Germans. Are these events being sensationalized?

Why would the news media cover up the story? On whose orders? How could the story be contained on social media? Could be it took a few days for a pattern to emerge that could be reported on.

Understand that in Germany the whole country goes out on the streets at midnight to light fireworks and drink champagne. In a large city like Koln, is it unusual to have 90 arrests on New Years Eve? Of those 90 arrests, there was one rape and a few gropings reported, and the rest of the arrests were petty crimes. Of course one rape or groping is one too many, but what evidence is there that there was a coordinated plan to sexually assault women? What evidence is there that there was a coordinated assault by 1,000 muslim men?

German police say New Year's assaults may be linked to criminal network

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cologne...ar-s-1.3391349

A more nuanced picture of what happened in the New Year's Eve chaos outside the Cologne train station emerged Wednesday.

Police said about 1,000 men gathered there and that smaller groups surrounded individual women, harassed them and stole their belongings. Police do not believe all 1,000 men were involved in the attacks.

About 90 people filed criminal complaints, though police have not said how many of them were women who were sexually assaulted. At least one woman said she was raped.

Police said some of the assaults in Cologne appeared similar to incidents that have been reported over the past two years in Duesseldorf, where men have groped women to distract them before stealing their belongings. The two cities are 40 kilometres apart.

Markus Niesczeri, a spokesman for Duesseldorf police, said that since the start of 2014, officers there have identified more than 2,000 suspects of North African origin in connection with organized thefts, though he did not say how many.

Authorities have cautioned that the nationality and residency status of the Cologne suspects is still unknown, since no one has been arrested.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1070583.html

Cologne's police chief, Wolfgang Albers, said that a quarter of the complaints made were related to sexual harassment or groping, with many others pertaining to theft of purses, wallets and mobile phones. He said that smaller groups of men repeatedly emerged from a crowd of about 1,000 young men to surround women, harass them and steal from them. According to the Cologne daily Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger, many of the presumed perpetrators are suspected of being from a large group of men that has attracted the attention of police in the past several months. Prior to New Year's Eve, the group had been involved in theft and petty crimes in Cologne nightlife districts.

Groups critical of Islam and foreigners have been quick to seek to appropriate the events in Cologne for their own purposes. Pegida, for example, the Islamophobic movement that got its start in Dresden, has posted several comments about the Cologne attacks on its numerous Facebook sites, with supporters responding in a predictably offensive manner.

Many German politicians commenting on Tuesday about the events in Cologne have been careful to calibrate their responses so as to avoid playing into the hands of right-wing Islamophobes. "We will not tolerate organized groups of men from North Africa that debase defenseless women with brazen sexual attacks," said Ralf Jäger, interior minister of the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. He added, however, that the authorities will do everything in their power to ensure that such attacks are not repeated. "We owe that to women as well as to those North African refugees who want to live peacefully among us."

Ulf Küch, police chief in the city of Braunschweig, which has also suffered at the hands of small-time criminals from migrant backgrounds, told SPIEGEL ONLINE in November that the vast majority of migrants from the region are law-abiding. "We have found that very few immigrants commit crimes, but those who do commit a number of crimes," says Küch. Official statistics would seem to indicate that his impression is right. A study released in November by the German Federal Criminal Police Office on crime committed by refugees shows that the number of offenses perpetrated by migrants is rising much more slowly than the number of migrants coming to Germany.

Last edited by troutman; 01-06-2016 at 08:59 AM.
troutman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2016, 09:42 AM   #40
CliffFletcher
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman View Post
Why would the news media cover up the story? On whose orders?
On nobody's orders. The suppression is voluntary. This is the way the thinking goes:
  1. Right-wing hate groups are bad.
  2. Right-wing hate groups feed off stories of immigrants and foreigners doing bad things to natives.
  3. Publishing stories about immigrants and foreigners doing bad things to locals will fuel right-wing hate groups. Which is bad.
  4. So we shouldn't publish those sorts of stories.

I've noticed some prominent media outlets have not enabled comments for this story. Another soft suppression of expression. The sentiment is well-meaning, but terribly misguided and dangerous to public dialogue. The more the media tries to be gate-keepers for this sort of debate, the more they'll simply drive the dialogue underground, while diminishing their own credibility and relevance.

And honestly, does anyone think we wouldn't see far, far more media attention to a mass crime and harassment outbreak like this at a U.S. college town involving hundreds of drunk and rowdy frat boys? The columns about rape culture would be all over the front page of every news outlet and forum on the internet.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze View Post
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
CliffFletcher is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:17 AM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021 | See Our Privacy Policy