[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Are you really trying to suggest that one of the most profitable teams in the NHL is going to somehow abandon one of the best markets in the NHL?

Last I checked, the Flames were still selling out.

This argument is so disingenuous it poisons the whole conversation. The Saddledome isn't falling apart, it isn't decrepit, it isn't a safety hazard and it isn't preventing fans from coming to games. The flames are still wildly popular, still generate incredible operating income and are benefiting from the national rogers TV deal. The 'dome isn't even ugly!

So, let's dispense with this ludicrous idea that the city of Calgary needs to pay a ####load of money so that the Flames can be even more profitable than the significant profits they are already making. The Flames WANT a new stadium but they don't NEED one. The current one is perfectly acceptable if you want to make between 15-25 million dollars a year. The flames want to make more than that though, but instead of re-investing their profits in their own business (like countless other businesses), they want the city and the province to make them more profitable.

The CFL team is a losing venture if they don't get that new stadium built, but rather than cut their losses they want to city to prop up their poor investment. Seems like corporate welfare to me.

As an organization they've had 10 million or more every year in operating income and have seen the franchise valuation DOUBLE in the last 4 years. They are in no-way hard up, and the saddle dome isn't contributing to lost revenue.

When you spend your time building a false narrative about the deficiencies of the existing building I think it really underscores how lacking in substantive arguments there are for the city to put in ANY money to this project.

The flames seem to have prioritized the PR campaign much higher than the actual project development up to this point which illustrates that they also see the up-hill battle of convincing Calgarians that tax payer money is necessary.

As someone who actually pays for seats, I disagree. The Saddledome is very frustrating and out of date. If it weren't for the fact that I would lose out on my standing for seats when the inevitable new arena comes, I doubt I would continue spending $9k a year indefinitely.

I think it is a tad disingenuous of you to talk about false narratives unless you too are spending money, and are happy doing so for the foreseeable future.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Are you really trying to suggest that one of the most profitable teams in the NHL is going to somehow abandon one of the best markets in the NHL?

There is no such thing as a good market if you don't have a good venue. How's that NHL team in Seattle doing?

Last I checked, the Flames were still selling out.

Last I checked, the Flames were still announcing sellouts. Does anyone actually believe the official attendance figures?

This argument is so disingenuous it poisons the whole conversation. The Saddledome isn't falling apart, it isn't decrepit, it isn't a safety hazard and it isn't preventing fans from coming to games. The flames are still wildly popular, still generate incredible operating income and are benefiting from the national rogers TV deal. The 'dome isn't even ugly!

None of that is even remotely relevant. The big money at the NHL box office comes from luxury boxes and other amenities. The Saddledome is maxed out in both those areas, and far behind any arena built in the current century. It's the revenue-generating capacity that makes the difference to the owners – as any rational person would expect.

The Saddledome was badly designed from the get-go. Nine-tenths of NHL franchises are based in arenas where the designers did not make those mistakes.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

You have a very optimistic projection for development in Calgary over the next 10-15 years.

Why? Because $40 oil will last forever?

[Schraderbrau]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Cool with me. I prefer those facilities and their experience, vs the massive public funds being asked.

What part of the saddledome experience is your favourite:

The crowded concourse
The never ending line to the bathrooms combining with the never ending lines for beer combining with the never ended lines for food
The limited number of entrances
The limited parking lot space
The half hour it takes to get parking
The half hour it takes to exit from parking
The month where there is no parking because circ de sola is in town
Or all concerts that pass us by for Edmonton.

I have a theory that there is a hell, it is located right here in Calgary, and is called The Saddledome. If you are a bad person and are sent to hell you spend an eternity sitting in long lines to get parking, standing in long lines to get in, standing in a crowded concourse being constantly bumped by idiots, standing In a massive line for food and beer, and while in that line people constantly shove past you as the beer line actually moves through the centre of the concourse. Then you spend time in another long line to go to the bathroom again while people shove past you because this bathroom line actually crosses paths with the food and beer line and also runs right through the center of the concourse. Then in an example of how evil he is satan tosses a big red truck right in the middle of the concourse just to take up a little more space. Finally the event you are at comes to an end and you think "I'm free" but oh no Satan has one more trick in hell for you, he makes it impossible for you to leave hell because there are only Two exits from the hellish parking lot. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

In case you can't tell, I hate the saddledome, it is hell on earth.

[Enoch Root]

My favourite Saddledome experience is, after waiting in line the entire intermission for the toilet, you get to wash your hands with ice-cold water and have no towels to dry off.

(but calling it hell on earth seems a bit excessive )

[AcGold]

That is an issue, how do you dry 15,000 hands in a small gross room? I've never been to an arena where the bathrooms are decent.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by AcGold

That is an issue, how do you dry 15,000 hands in a small gross room? I've never been to an arena where the bathrooms are decent.

Have more rooms?

It isn't a big problem in newer buildings

[heep223]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

McMahon is great. My season ticket are cheap, keep in that way and buy some GD 3G visa machines already.

McMahon is a #### hole and a terrible fan experience. It's embarrassing for the city. That's why tickets are so cheap.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I slightly prefer standing in an open field in a blizzard with no jacket on to the ‘experience’ that is McMahon Stadium.

The only sane explanation is that you have no intention of ever attending any event at McMahon, so the facility and the experience are not your problem.

As for the Saddledome, the experience will only get worse once the building can no longer generate enough revenue to pay an NHL team. Enjoy the Hitmen games and tractor pulls once that happens.

A-ha! There you are jean jacket guy at the ski hill.

Originally Posted by Schraderbrau

What part of the saddledome experience is your favourite:

The crowded concourse
The never ending line to the bathrooms combining with the never ending lines for beer combining with the never ended lines for food
The limited number of entrances
The limited parking lot space
The half hour it takes to get parking
The half hour it takes to exit from parking
The month where there is no parking because circ de sola is in town
Or all concerts that pass us by for Edmonton.

I have a theory that there is a hell, it is located right here in Calgary, and is called The Saddledome. If you are a bad person and are sent to hell you spend an eternity sitting in long lines to get parking, standing in long lines to get in, standing in a crowded concourse being constantly bumped by idiots, standing In a massive line for food and beer, and while in that line people constantly shove past you as the beer line actually moves through the centre of the concourse. Then you spend time in another long line to go to the bathroom again while people shove past you because this bathroom line actually crosses paths with the food and beer line and also runs right through the center of the concourse. Then in an example of how evil he is satan tosses a big red truck right in the middle of the concourse just to take up a little more space. Finally the event you are at comes to an end and you think "I'm free" but oh no Satan has one more trick in hell for you, he makes it impossible for you to leave hell because there are only Two exits from the hellish parking lot. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

In case you can't tell, I hate the saddledome, it is hell on earth.

Lol, I walked.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Schraderbrau

In case you can't tell, I hate the saddledome, it is hell on earth.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As someone who actually pays for seats, I disagree. The Saddledome is very frustrating and out of date. If it weren't for the fact that I would lose out on my standing for seats when the inevitable new arena comes, I doubt I would continue spending $9k a year indefinitely.

I think it is a tad disingenuous of you to talk about false narratives unless you too are spending money, and are happy doing so for the foreseeable future.

You're willing to pay 9k a year to avoid being inconvenienced about where your new seats might be in a new stadium where you'll likely be paying 12k a year to watch hockey.

Can you explain to me what part of your post addresses the hundreds of millions of dollars the city of Calgary will be paying to help you avoid this inconvenience?

How do the other million plus residents of Calgary benefit from you having better sight lines and lower toilet wait times?

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There is no such thing as a good market if you don't have a good venue. How's that NHL team in Seattle doing?

You're becoming shrill and hysterical. How's that team in Quebec doing?

Last I checked, the Flames were still announcing sellouts. Does anyone actually believe the official attendance figures?

I don't get it, do the flames give refunds to people who buy tickets but don't show up?

None of that is even remotely relevant. The big money at the NHL box office comes from luxury boxes and other amenities. The Saddledome is maxed out in both those areas, and far behind any arena built in the current century. It's the revenue-generating capacity that makes the difference to the owners – as any rational person would expect.

The Saddledome was badly designed from the get-go. Nine-tenths of NHL franchises are based in arenas where the designers did not make those mistakes.

So why does the city of Calgary have to help a private business generate more revenue, at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars to the city?

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

...So, let's dispense with this ludicrous idea that the city of Calgary needs to pay a ####load of money so that the Flames can be even more profitable than the significant profits they are already making. The Flames WANT a new stadium but they don't NEED one. The current one is perfectly acceptable if you want to make between 15-25 million dollars a year. The flames want to make more than that though, but instead of re-investing their profits in their own business (like countless other businesses), they want the city and the province to make them more profitable.

The CFL team is a losing venture if they don't get that new stadium built, but rather than cut their losses they want to city to prop up their poor investment. Seems like corporate welfare to me....

Great post. Agree 100%.

Only one thing is missing: the NEED to build a rarely-if-ever-used fieldhouse on what's likely going to be the most expensive piece of real estate in Canada.

[Table 5]

It doesn't have to be an either/or scenario. At the end of the, many of us agree that the Saddledome, while still functional, is behind the times and an upgrade would be hugely beneficial from a fan-experience standpoint. But we also believe, that as with any other private business, the cost should be on the owners and their paying customers, and not the public.

Nobody is saying the Flames can't build a new stadium. If they really want one, they can go ahead and build a new stadium. They can buy some land, hire architects, file for permits, and pay for it's construction. You know, like every other developer in town.

These supposed roadblocks the Flames are fighting are 100% self-generated.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The CFL team is a losing venture if they don't get that new stadium built, but rather than cut their losses they want to city to prop up their poor investment. Seems like corporate welfare to me.

I bet Calgary is one of the top 3 teams in both attendance and revenue in the CFL. Saskatchewan and Edmonton being the two teams higher.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I bet Calgary is one of the top 3 teams in both attendance and revenue in the CFL. Saskatchewan and Edmonton being the two teams higher.

And if they can't make it work without a government hand-out then the league is a joke and should fold. Sorry.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You're willing to pay 9k a year to avoid being inconvenienced about where your new seats might be in a new stadium where you'll likely be paying 12k a year to watch hockey.

Can you explain to me what part of your post addresses the hundreds of millions of dollars the city of Calgary will be paying to help you avoid this inconvenience?

How do the other million plus residents of Calgary benefit from you having better sight lines and lower toilet wait times?

My post addressed your post, which directly and foolishly called the argument that the the Saddledome needed to be replaced as a false narrative.

Now you are moving the goalposts to another debate which a) we don't know the parameters of, and b) you and I will never agree on, so I am not going to bother going around in those circles again.

There will be some public funding, and a portion of the population, including yourself most likely, won't be happy about it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by heep223

McMahon is a #### hole and a terrible fan experience. It's embarrassing for the city. That's why tickets are so cheap.

The Argos play in Rogers Centre, and their tickets are cheaper than Stamps tickets.

The Stamps actually have some of the more expensive tickets in the league based on the last time I was looking at tickets.

Tickets are cheap to the Stamps because the CFL doesn't draw crowds any more and in most markets they can't be priced any higher than they are now without it drastically impacting sales.

Toronto, where the corporate money is? Booted from Rogers Centre by the Pan-Am Games and then the Blue Jays, the Argos were barely a blip on the city’s radar.

Saskatchewan, where the fans care the most? A 3-15 disaster.

Winnipeg, host city of the Grey Cup? The Bombers went 5-13.

Wednesday, when the CFL’s winningest coach ever, B.C. Lions GM Wally Buono, held his season post-mortem, he was defending an operation that drew just 21,290 fans on average, far below the capacity of even the scaled-down, 27,500-seat lower bowl configuration at B.C. Place.

His 7-11 team lost 35-9 in Sunday’s West semifinal at Calgary, a game that drew only 26,000 and change in 36,000-seat McMahon Stadium, home of a 14-4 Stampeders team that won last year’s Grey Cup and has averaged 13 wins per season for the eight years John Hufnagel has been its head coach.

The stadium has precious little to do with why fans aren't going to Stamps games.

If you can't attract more than 65% capacity in warm weather, during a winning season for the most important game of the year, do you really a roof (complete with more expensive tickets) is going to seal the deal?

[Jaydee]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Have more rooms?

It isn't a big problem in newer buildings

Bell center and Gila River Arena bathrooms are 100000x times nicer than ours

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

Bell center and Gila River Arena bathrooms are 100000x times nicer than ours

At Gila River Arena (even during the rare sell-out or heavy crowd), you can get in and out of the (clean) bathroom in almost no time, go get a cocktail, grab some food, and make it back to your seats long before the intermission is over.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The stadium has precious little to do with why fans aren't going to Stamps games.



If you can't attract more than 65% capacity in warm weather, during a winning season for the most important game of the year, do you really a roof (complete with more expensive tickets) is going to seal the deal?

Are you serious? Umm yes a nicer stadium with better amenities, bathrooms, food and beverage options, easier access, better sight lines and a retractable roof would do wonders for attendance. I consider myself a casual stamps fans and would attend far more often if they didn't play in a hell hole.

I currently rarely go to Stamps games because I don't want to sit on a frozen metal bench and eat a dirty old wrinkled $7 hot dog, when I can barely see the play and even the "jumbotron" is so far away I can't see it. My wife just laughs when I ask her to go.

The only time I go to games is when I get wasted with the boys and thus don't care about the surroundings or the game very much. That's about once per season.

You can't seriously fathom that in a cold weather climate, replacing a building constructed in 1959 with a new modern facility isn't going to attract more people to games?