Bill Cosby Rape Allegations

[icecube]

[MRCboicgy]

Good lord, do we need to lock the entire OT forum for a few hours? Why is there so much crap spread throughout threads?

Keep it on topic, don't get so fricken defensive if people disagree with your point of view or call out perceived issues with your logic.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Keep insinuating Im pooping on threads by providing the logical clear headed side of things. Which I'm sure I'll get argued on for about 20 more posts

If by logical you mean obstinate and nonsensical then yep, you're nailing it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Keep insinuating Im pooping on threads by providing the logical clear headed side of things. Which I'm sure I'll get argued on for about 20 more posts

You've made two basic arguments I think, the first, that he's famous and they could possibly be gold digging hoes, is clearly ludicrous as Cosby himself has, under oath, already admitted to the basic facts of the case and paid a wad of cash to settle a claim, the shear number and similarities of the stories also undermines that arguement, I will give you the fact that even you haven't really tried to suggest he isn't a rapey #######, you just thrown it out half heartedly.

The second, which is the hill you've chosen to die on, is the innocent until proven guilty proposition. It is also a ludicrous arguement as this is a talk board, a place where people come to give their opinion, it's the whole reason d'être for the existence of this site, it's why Edmontons no good or Alex Burrows is a ######bag, there is nothing wrong, within the context of this site, in any of these clearly personal opinions.

If you don't like these conversations go elsewhere, that's a personal choice, but
to argue that it's wrong to talk about Cosby being a rapist here is no more logical than complaing about male nudity on a gay porn site.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Keep insinuating Im pooping on threads by providing the logical clear headed side of things. Which I'm sure I'll get argued on for about 20 more posts

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Good lord, do we need to lock the entire OT forum for a few hours? Why is there so much crap spread throughout threads?

Keep it on topic, don't get so fricken defensive if people disagree with your point of view or call out perceived issues with your logic.

Nope. Just one dude. ^^ That one.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It was stated that the media has condemned him. Of course they are sensationlizing the story - it is a huge story. I want examples of where the media has condemned him already or "framed him as being guilty".

Well, I certainly think the implication is there. They can't come right out and say, "look what Bill Cosby did", but the overriding theme is essentially, "is there fire? Well, let's take a look at all the smoke in excruciating detail. Now let's talk about what might have caused the fire, if there was a fire, for about a half hour, before asking various people who knew the alleged fire-starter what they think about fire and his history of playing with matches." The whole thing is basically predicated on there being a there, there.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about it, but let's be realistic and fair here, the media coverage certainly contributes to a perception that the guy is guilty. If you're watching 24 hour news on the Cosby case, you're going to get the overwhelming sense that he's a rapist. Partly because there's tons of evidence that he is, but also because if it looks like yeah, there IS a fire, it's a much jucier story. So it's covered in that way - tons of implication, tons of innuendo, the racier and more sordid, the better.

Again, I expect no different and I don't think there's some grand miscarriage of justice going on in this case by seeing it tried in the media... because I honestly think he did it. Many times. However, I can think of other situations where this predilection to cover these sorts of stories in precisely this sort of manner could yield some pretty horrifying results and ruin a person's life unjustifiably.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

If you're watching 24 hour news on the Cosby case, you're going to get the overwhelming sense that he's a rapist.

Funny, for me it's the 50 women accusing him of rape that give me the overwhelming sense he's a rapist.

I felt that way from the first time I heard the staggering numbers, regardless of whether the figure is said over and over 24 hours a day in a nonstop news loop.

You guys taking this stance are really reaching, and seem to be doing so just in order to have something to complain up a storm about. AFC's post above really hit it out of the park. This is a discussion board, and if the opinions are offensive to you, you have the option to post elsewhere as opposed to manufacturing the same hollow outrage post after post after post.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Well, I certainly think the implication is there. They can't come right out and say, "look what Bill Cosby did", but the overriding theme is essentially, "is there fire? Well, let's take a look at all the smoke in excruciating detail. Now let's talk about what might have caused the fire, if there was a fire, for about a half hour, before asking various people who knew the alleged fire-starter what they think about fire and his history of playing with matches." The whole thing is basically predicated on there being a there, there.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about it, but let's be realistic and fair here, the media coverage certainly contributes to a perception that the guy is guilty. If you're watching 24 hour news on the Cosby case, you're going to get the overwhelming sense that he's a rapist. Partly because there's tons of evidence that he is, but also because if it looks like yeah, there IS a fire, it's a much jucier story. So it's covered in that way - tons of implication, tons of innuendo, the racier and more sordid, the better.

Again, I expect no different and I don't think there's some grand miscarriage of justice going on in this case by seeing it tried in the media... because I honestly think he did it. Many times. However, I can think of other situations where this predilection to cover these sorts of stories in precisely this sort of manner could yield some pretty horrifying results and ruin a person's life unjustifiably.

I don't get what people are expecting here. Is there any way to report that a guy has been accused of raping 40 women, many with very similar characteristics that doesn't make the accused look guilty? How would you honestly rather see it played out?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

This is a discussion board, and if the opinions are offensive to you, you have the option to post elsewhere as opposed to manufacturing the same hollow outrage post after post after post.

By the same logic if you don't like their posts you are free to go elsewhere.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't get what people are expecting here. Is there any way to report that a guy has been accused of raping 40 women, many with very similar characteristics that doesn't make the accused look guilty? How would you honestly rather see it played out?

Exactly, if this was any other crime, no one would be worried about whether or not the media "made him look guilty." If a man was accused of robbing 40 banks--with similar circumstances and a receipt for a ski mask and handgun in his wallet, no one would worry if it was the media making him look bad.

For some reason, everyone wants to let men off for rape/sexual assault. For some reason, more than any other crime, the victim is investigated just as heavily as the accused.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Exactly, if this was any other crime, no one would be worried about whether or not the media "made him look guilty." If a man was accused of robbing 40 banks--with similar circumstances and a receipt for a ski mask and handgun in his wallet, no one would worry if it was the media making him look bad.

For some reason, everyone wants to let men off for rape/sexual assault. For some reason, more than any other crime, the victim is investigated just as heavily as the accused.

You're right. Everyone here wants him to get off scot free. It's written all over this forum and even in many of the posters signatures. Lets keep the rhetoric where it belongs. On facebook.

If he robbed 40 banks there would be video of it. If he had a mask there would be tracked evidence. If there was none of this evidence it would be slander/liable and the evidence wouldn't be there.

He has far too many people coming forward to appear innocent but the claims are the only "evidence" (that we are aware of). Yes, it's still damning, yes it looked horrid. Yes, dude looks guilty as hell and yes, people have been sentenced with just one witness but there is always evidence tied with that witness. This whole matter is tragic for everyone involved and I'm including the victims and Bill "can I get you a drink" Cosby, the actors tied to Bill, and the Black community in the USA.

I read a great article on Cracked (They are surprisingly good 80% of the time) that talks about Bill and why it's so hard to admit what he did... "allegedly". He was the surrogate father of many 80's/90's children... It's kind of hard to watch it, believe it and see it...

http://www.cracked.com/blog/why-we-a...rges-10-years/

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't get what people are expecting here. Is there any way to report that a guy has been accused of raping 40 women, many with very similar characteristics that doesn't make the accused look guilty? How would you honestly rather see it played out?

I literally said I expect exactly this; I agree with you.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Again, I expect no different and I don't think there's some grand miscarriage of justice going on in this case by seeing it tried in the media... because I honestly think he did it. Many times. However, I can think of other situations where this predilection to cover these sorts of stories in precisely this sort of manner could yield some pretty horrifying results and ruin a person's life unjustifiably.

While I see where you're coming from, I don't really see the point of making this argument here, and it's getting tiresome that people want to go on about it.

It's stating the obvious and not very relevant here.

I'd appreciate it if people (I'm mostly looking at Ducay here) didn't keep derailing threads with stuff like this.

Not every technically accurate point is worth making in every discussion.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Itse

I'd appreciate it if people (I'm mostly looking at Ducay here) didn't keep derailing threads with stuff like this.

As much as I don't mind being the punching bag; go back and read what I said when I initially joined this topic. I was simply refuting the claim that just having a lot of claims didn't mean that a certain amount had to be true. I also argued that the media often paints people who are not yet convicted as being guilty (see discussion on covers, etc, earlier).

I'm not here to defend Cosby, rape, jello pudding, nor Kodak film.

People need to tone down the argumentative nature of these debates. They should remain debates, not platforms for attack.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Ducay

As much as I don't mind being the punching bag; go back and read what I said when I initially joined this topic. I was simply refuting the claim that just having a lot of claims didn't mean that a certain amount had to be true. I also argued that the media often paints people who are not yet convicted as being guilty (see discussion on covers, etc, earlier).

I'm not here to defend Cosby, rape, jello pudding, nor Kodak film.

People need to tone down the argumentative nature of these debates. They should remain debates, not platforms for attack.

It's not an attack. It's a simple a request and I think a rather reasonable one.

I think your point is of marginal relevance and interest, yet you keep repeating it. It's starting to be annoying, so it'd be nice if you stopped.

If I was you, I'd also consider if there was another way of making your points. You don't come across that well. You've turned at least two threads into arguments in as many days, pretty much by yourself.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Itse

It's not an attack. It's a simple a request and I think a rather reasonable one.

I think your point is of marginal relevance and interest, yet you keep repeating it. It's starting to be annoying, so it'd be nice if you stopped.

Well I certainly have no interest in repeating myself and don't do so intentionally, but if others continue to repeat their same retorts, of course they will illicit a similar rebuttal since I draw from the same basis of facts and law.

Originally Posted by Itse

If I was you, I'd also consider if there was another way of making your points. You don't come across that well. You've turned at least two threads into arguments in as many days, pretty much by yourself.

I appreciate your mature approach, any devolvement into argument is unintentional, as I am pushing for open debate, not this "piling on" argumentative style it moves to.

People are free to disagree with me without it having to turn into a "Ducay is a troll" "Ducay go away" school yard situation. I'll happily step out of this debate go as long as I don't keep getting mentioned.

[Daradon]

I don't think anyone understands what exactly your trying to debate though. You seem to be beating a dead horse, and derailing in the process.

Has the media been sensational? Yes. But we've all admitted this. It's hard for it not to be sensational at this point. It's a big story with a very famous person. A person, who by the way benefited from the media in the past. That's the problem with being in the public eye. The knife cuts both ways. So even if it's unfair (and I'm not sure it IS unfair), it's expected, and probably impossible to change.

Is he innocent until proven guilty? In the justice system yes. Again, we all admitted this. In the public eye, probably not. This is all a very 'where there is smoke, there is fire,' Occum's Razor sort of deal. With this many allegations it's nearly impossible that he isn't guilty of some if not many or all. This isn't a usual rape case, and it isn't one accusation. This isn't the Kane case. Also, there have finally been charges brought forth now, so it's not just allegations. It's charges.

Don't forget, he's admitted many details as well in his settlement. So harping on people for their opinions or wanting to talk about what is pretty much a certainty, is pointless and obviously infuriating for some for good reason. People are going to judge, and there's no reason why they shouldn't. It fits both logic and common sense. Again, this has all been brought up.

Lastly, this whole deal about just how many women he may have raped, or if any might be looking for free money or publicity is pointless and kinda misogynistic. First of all, why would it matter how many he's raped? If he raped 38 and not 50, would it really make a difference? The only way I could see it mattering is if he raped 1 and all the rest were jumping in for whatever reason the deniers might be imagining. Not only is the probability of this next to impossible, it's still unfair to the woman he did rape. Plus it still makes him a rapist. And continually beating on this drum feels icky in a world where rape generally goes unreported and the system is set up against the victims. (I'm not sure I feel it's purposefully against the victims, but the burden of proof in a situation where there is grey areas is tough, and it makes it hard. I go back and forth on this, but that's a different thread, I'll keep it simple for this argument.)

So, and I'm afraid to ask this and watch you chase your own tail again, what is this big point and logical clear headed side of things?

[Ducay]

Well put. Can't disagree much with that.

Like I said, not here to defend Cosby. Was More of a societal/media gripe. Please carry on the discussion about Cosby.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Wow, this thread is such a pile of crap.

[To Be Quite Honest]

The news has turned into gossip hour in the States. There is a lack of professionalism and that is what most find annoying. Report the news and move on to the next topic. Mind you, I hardly watch the news now because of it and I get most of the stories around the world here!