[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I'd bet his comments reflect the majority of calgarians.

I would prefer they sounded mayoral, not populist

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I'd bet his comments reflect the majority of calgarians.

Since nobody has ever asked the majority of Calgarians, it's a moot point.

For what little it's worth, it certainly doesn't reflect the majority of me. I think the West Village is pretty much the only logical location available for a project of this nature. The CRL idea is pretty much a non-starter – where are they going to build enough stuff in the WV to recoup that amount in taxes? So the owners will have to put up more money to make the scheme fly; but if it doesn't fly, there really isn't any feasible alternative except to keep using the Saddledome and McMahon until they rot.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I'd bet his comments reflect the majority of calgarians.

Hard to say. And it depends a lot on the question.

1) Do you support the City giving money to build the Calgary Flames a new arena?

Or

2) Do you support using money the City has already allocated to a field house to help make a complex that all Calgarians can use and enjoy become even better than it could be if the City built it on its own?

I support the arena complex, but admit we need more info before we can say either way whether or not the economics make sense.

[nik-]

Non existing money that will be allocated to a field house if it's provided.

And the assumption that it will be better if the Flames manage it is hilarious. They've handled this whole thing like a grenade. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Since nobody has ever asked the majority of Calgarians, it's a moot point.

For what little it's worth, it certainly doesn't reflect the majority of me. I think the West Village is pretty much the only logical location available for a project of this nature. The CRL idea is pretty much a non-starter – where are they going to build enough stuff in the WV to recoup that amount in taxes? So the owners will have to put up more money to make the scheme fly; but if it doesn't fly, there really isn't any feasible alternative except to keep using the Saddledome and McMahon until they rot.

Cool with me. I prefer those facilities and their experience, vs the massive public funds being asked.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by nik-

Non existing money that will be allocated to a field house if it's provided.

And the assumption that it will be better if the Flames manage it is hilarious. They've handled this whole thing like a grenade. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

Exactly. What do the Flames know about running sporting facilities? If you want something run properly, you leave it to the local government, amirite?

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

1) Do you support the City giving money to build the Calgary Flames a new arena?

Or

2) Do you support using money the City has already allocated to a field house to help make a complex that all Calgarians can use and enjoy become even better than it could be if the City built it on its own?

George Bush -

Great President?

Or

The Greatest President?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Cool with me. I prefer those facilities and their experience, vs the massive public funds being asked.

I slightly prefer standing in an open field in a blizzard with no jacket on to the ‘experience’ that is McMahon Stadium.

The only sane explanation is that you have no intention of ever attending any event at McMahon, so the facility and the experience are not your problem.

As for the Saddledome, the experience will only get worse once the building can no longer generate enough revenue to pay an NHL team. Enjoy the Hitmen games and tractor pulls once that happens.

[corporatejay]

McMahon is great. My season ticket are cheap, keep in that way and buy some GD 3G visa machines already.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

As for the Saddledome, the experience will only get worse once the building can no longer generate enough revenue to pay an NHL team. Enjoy the Hitmen games and tractor pulls once that happens.

Great, in 10-15 years when the threat of a relocation may be legit, lets discuss public funds, otherwise, hey Flames, see my previous posts on this subject regarding opening your books and a loan program.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

Great, in 10-15 years when the threat of a relocation may be legit, lets discuss public funds, otherwise, hey Flames, see my previous posts on this subject regarding opening your books and a loan program.

What makes you think it will take 10-15 years? The Saddledome is obsolete now, and it was built in such a way that it is impossible to do an MSG-style rebuild of the interior. Huge mistakes were made in the design of the building – mistakes that all other arena builders learned from when the big construction spree started in the 1990s. It's simply not fixable.

In any case, no matter how long the Saddledome has left as a viable NHL venue, there needs to be some kind of plan to replace it, and that means finding a location. If you wait 10 or 15 years, the East Village will be completely filled up, the West Village will probably be largely parcelled out to developers and construction well underway, and there will be no viable site for a new arena anywhere near downtown. The very least that needs to be done is to choose a site and set it aside for the purpose.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

Great, in 10-15 years when the threat of a relocation may be legit, lets discuss public funds, otherwise, hey Flames, see my previous posts on this subject regarding opening your books and a loan program.

So better to wait until it turns into a ####show than have rational negotiations now? Yeah, seems like a good plan.

[Frequitude]

The owners are effectively putting enough money in the pot to pay for an arena. The crux of the issue boils down to whether or not public funds should go towards CFL stadiums in this country.

Personally, I'm still holding out hope for an Olympic bid and some Trudeau bucks.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

What makes you think it will take 10-15 years? The Saddledome is obsolete now, and it was built in such a way that it is impossible to do an MSG-style rebuild of the interior. Huge mistakes were made in the design of the building – mistakes that all other arena builders learned from when the big construction spree started in the 1990s. It's simply not fixable.

In any case, no matter how long the Saddledome has left as a viable NHL venue, there needs to be some kind of plan to replace it, and that means finding a location. If you wait 10 or 15 years, the East Village will be completely filled up, the West Village will probably be largely parcelled out to developers and construction well underway, and there will be no viable site for a new arena anywhere near downtown. The very least that needs to be done is to choose a site and set it aside for the purpose.

You have a very optimistic projection for development in Calgary over the next 10-15 years.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So better to wait until it turns into a ####show than have rational negotiations now? Yeah, seems like a good plan.

Yes - for a asset which seems to only last 30 - 40 years, 10-15 years extra is a huge percentage of its life.


As per the other post directed at me:
You want to discuss reserving land for a future stadium? That is another discussion, and one I am not sure where I fall, however, that is way less then what is currently proposed.

Again, I am not against giving the flames money, I would like my conditions attached is all, which I previously posted in this thread.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

The owners are effectively putting enough money in the pot to pay for an arena. The crux of the issue boils down to whether or not public funds should go towards CFL stadiums in this country.

Personally, I'm still holding out hope for an Olympic bid and some Trudeau bucks.

I would love Federal money for an arena, that would be amazing - however, I would much prefer federal money for items like the bow trail/crowchild overpass, even without the nearby future rink.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I slightly prefer standing in an open field in a blizzard with no jacket on to the ‘experience’ that is McMahon Stadium.

The only sane explanation is that you have no intention of ever attending any event at McMahon, so the facility and the experience are not your problem.

As for the Saddledome, the experience will only get worse once the building can no longer generate enough revenue to pay an NHL team. Enjoy the Hitmen games and tractor pulls once that happens.

Are you really trying to suggest that one of the most profitable teams in the NHL is going to somehow abandon one of the best markets in the NHL?

Last I checked, the Flames were still selling out.

This argument is so disingenuous it poisons the whole conversation. The Saddledome isn't falling apart, it isn't decrepit, it isn't a safety hazard and it isn't preventing fans from coming to games. The flames are still wildly popular, still generate incredible operating income and are benefiting from the national rogers TV deal. The 'dome isn't even ugly!

So, let's dispense with this ludicrous idea that the city of Calgary needs to pay a ####load of money so that the Flames can be even more profitable than the significant profits they are already making. The Flames WANT a new stadium but they don't NEED one. The current one is perfectly acceptable if you want to make between 15-25 million dollars a year. The flames want to make more than that though, but instead of re-investing their profits in their own business (like countless other businesses), they want the city and the province to make them more profitable.

The CFL team is a losing venture if they don't get that new stadium built, but rather than cut their losses they want to city to prop up their poor investment. Seems like corporate welfare to me.

As an organization they've had 10 million or more every year in operating income and have seen the franchise valuation DOUBLE in the last 4 years. They are in no-way hard up, and the saddle dome isn't contributing to lost revenue.

When you spend your time building a false narrative about the deficiencies of the existing building I think it really underscores how lacking in substantive arguments there are for the city to put in ANY money to this project.

The flames seem to have prioritized the PR campaign much higher than the actual project development up to this point which illustrates that they also see the up-hill battle of convincing Calgarians that tax payer money is necessary.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I'd bet his comments reflect the majority of calgarians.

He's right though. I wish Nenshi would act a little more professional at times as he really likes to make it about himself. He's a fairly popular mayor but he could be more popular if he didn't love the sound of his voice so much.

As for the topic. There's nothing really here to see outside of Nenshi feeling the need to get some face time in a news headline.

[Flash Walken]

Nenshi said the city will openly weigh the pros and cons of the Flames' plan and the public will be asked for input throughout the process.

"It may well be the numbers just don't balance ... but it may be that we go a little further, and we'll do that with the public," he said.

"We have to be very, very clear that we're spending public money on public benefit," Nenshi added.

The issue is set to formally return before council in the spring.

God, what an insufferable, self aggrandizing ####### this Nenshi guy is.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

God, what an insufferable, self aggrandizing ####### this Nenshi guy is.

I think windbag is a pretty accurate description. 😉