[News] Flames have yet to start contract talks with David Jones

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

the level of play would drop dramatically. our farm team is tied for 2nd last place in the A, you really think anyone on that team can play in the NHL? the grease farm team is 7 pts ahead of us, the grease!!, let that sink in if you think our kids on the farm are ready or not.

Stockton isn't loaded with AHL vets. It's one of the youngest teams. That's why they are near the bottom. I have watched almost every game (except the ones since the outdoor game because of being busy during the holidays) and a lot of the guys could play in the NHL right now. A large part of the problem is terrible terrible goaltending ever since Gillies went down for the year and Poulin shortly after. Those 4 could play tomorrow. It would be like having Jooris X4 out there instead. Not sexy by any stretch, but it wouldn't hurt much.

Also, the Flames are the 5th worst team. If the 4th line goes from being decent to below average, how far are we going fall? We're already basement adjacent anyway. Those players also need to be given a shot to see if they can play next year as well. I do believe all except Poirier will need to clear waivers next year in camp.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Honestly - yes. At least when it comes to Stajan and Jones.
We all love prospects but it is naiive to assume that guys not exactly excelling at the NHL level can replace proven big leaguers.

Stajan is the only one of the 4 that's a good player. He is also the only one that you might get a return for outside of a 4th round pick or later.

Of course there would be growing pains, but it's not like those guys play a large enough role to vastly impact a game. If statistically the difference between the foursomes ended up being more than 5-10 additional goals surrendered over the course of the remainder of the season, I would be surprised. They just aren't on the ice long enough.

Yes, it would likely make the team slighty worse in the short term, but really how far further do we have to fall? Only 4 teams are behind the Flames currently and three are within 3 points. If the Flames are equally terrible at the deadline, why hold on to them?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

the level of play would drop dramatically. our farm team is tied for 2nd last place in the A, you really think anyone on that team can play in the NHL? the grease farm team is 7 pts ahead of us, the grease!!, let that sink in if you think our kids on the farm are ready or not.

They're 5th last place in the A not tied for 2nd last.

Goaltending is the issue.

Gillies had a .920 save percentage before his injury. Ortio has a .892 save percentage but we know he's gotta be, and able to be better than that. That difference in save percentage is the difference between 2.36GAA and 3.19 GAA right there.

The Heat average 2.73 goals per game so do the math. That's the difference between a +10 goal differential and a -12 goal differential (their actual goal differential is -8). If their goal differential is +8 instead that means they have, I dunno, maybe four more wins and one more loser point? That's 9 points more which would give them a 0.596 points percentage which would be good for 10th best in the AHL and 2nd in their division by a good margin.

They're a team that averages 35.2 shots per game (2nd of 30) and allows 29.54 shots against per game (15th of 30) so Ortio heating up will go a long way. They're an 8 game win streak out of second place in their division with 62% of their season left to be played and Ortio having just thrown together his two best games of the year in a row.

The skaters down there are fine, especially Nakladal and the older tweener forwards (Shore/Hamilton/Grant) all primed for callups along with older Flames prospects (Agostino/Hathaway/Arnold/Elson).

... and of course Caged Great beats me to it by 11 minutes.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by browna

David Jones was seriously underappreciated last year and especially in the playoffs. Ferland may had the spectacular hits, but Jones played a very physical game as well, and many of his physical plays and hard work resulted in goals (or near goals, watch the plays he makes on Bennett "goal" vs Ana Game 3)

Doesn't mean you don't think of moving him or resigning him, but before we pull an Oiler fan and start crapping on players, give the guy his due credit. Given how soft and undersized and under physical this team is already (last two games are prime examples) losing more of that physicality really can't occur without a similar replacement coming in.

I get what your saying, and I appreciated Jones from that playoff run. In fact, I thought him and Ferland were a fantastic duo. Both hard hitting and were physical. I thought Ferland had found a real mentor in Jones.

But this year, like many of the vets, he is off sync. I don't expect him to score 20, but for 4 million/year it should be a reasonable expectation. But the thing I don't like about him is how unnoticeable he is. Jones himself says if he's not moving his feet, he's useless. Well I don't notice his physicality anymore. I rarely see him hit. He's rarely involved in scrums or he never has something to say when one of our guys takes a cheap shot. He's not even getting pucks to the net (2 shots in last 8 games).

I understand that we can't go full 0iler and cast of every vet we have and hope our AHL guys can come in right away. But I just don't see how Jones is justifying any portion of his contract, much less a re-sign. He's not a part of the solution going forward and I honestly believe we can get a younger, cheaper player as a UFA who can play his role.

He's always been underwhelming to me since the day he arrived, with the exception of last season when he came back from injury and in the playoffs. If he's not scoring, he should be noticeable in other areas. But he just isn't.

[dying4acup]

The one thing about jones that is hard to replace is his Right Hand shot. Only he and jooris possess this up front.

For this reason alone, I don't think the Flames will dismiss re-signing him. I don't think he's been a healthy scratch this year yet, and offensively he's performed reasonably well.

At 2m-2.5m I'd have him back. 2 yrs max!

[T@T]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

The one thing about jones that is hard to replace is his Right Hand shot. Only he and jooris possess this up front.

For this reason alone, I don't think the Flames will dismiss re-signing him. I don't think he's been a healthy scratch this year yet, and offensively he's performed reasonably well.

At 2m-2.5m I'd have him back. 2 yrs max!

Only because he's well liked and the team needs a few vets up front but $1m-$1.5m max and for one year, he's often injured and he'll be 32 next year.

All he's worth IMO.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

The one thing about jones that is hard to replace is his Right Hand shot. Only he and jooris possess this up front.

For this reason alone, I don't think the Flames will dismiss re-signing him. I don't think he's been a healthy scratch this year yet, and offensively he's performed reasonably well.

At 2m-2.5m I'd have him back. 2 yrs max!

That's very generous for a guy that will probably be "Glencrossed" next season. The most I would offer is a 1 year deal for $1 million and even if at that, I wouldn't be thrilled.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Are you just looking to argue? It was pretty obvious he was saying Stajan has 2 goals on the season and he wouldn't miss those 2 goals.

No, he was saying that Stajan has had a 2-goal season. He never has. Are you so thick that you can't see the plain and obvious meaning of those words?

He was also implying that goal production is the only thing Stajan brings to the team, which is ludicrous; but other people have already taken him apart on that one.

You're acting like you just uncovered some major conspiracy and the truth needs to come out.

Oh, get over yourself. I'm typing words on a goddamn message board. You're the one who thinks it's a huge deal if anyone dares to disagree with you.

[Hackey]

LOL you're still nitpicking the way YOU percieved what he said. Any reasonable person would realize he meant on the season not the entire season. Not to mention he clarified on page 2. You've been arguing the goal total the entire time. All of a sudden a few posters point out Stajan brings more than goals and of course you assume the orignal poster was "implying" this wasn't true now. At least you clearly realized arguing the goal total was ridiculous.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Yes, it would likely make the team slighty worse in the short term, but really how far further do we have to fall? Only 4 teams are behind the Flames currently and three are within 3 points. If the Flames are equally terrible at the deadline, why hold on to them?

That looks damning, if we weren't also 3 points out of second place in our division and a playoff spot.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Honestly - yes. At least when it comes to Stajan and Jones.
We all love prospects but it is naiive to assume that guys not exactly excelling at the NHL level can replace proven big leaguers.

Stajan? yes but Jones no. What does he bring to the table a farm hand like Shore or Agostino can't?

Stajan is a locker room guy, I wish he was a bout a mill cheaper but even at his current price he's ok. Jones, however is a mediocre player.

Bollig should remain as the 13th forward. Stajan should stay. Raymond and Jones should be left in Colorado tonight or put on a wrong flight with Agostino and Grant coming up.

[Erick Estrada]

Stajan is overpaid but how many games this season has he stood out for being bad? Seems like most players on this team have taken turns at times for looking bad but Stajan has been pretty consistent for this team. He's good enough to play top six minutes without hurting you in the event one of the top centres goes down to injury. Jones doesn't nearly bring the same amount of versatility to the table as Stajan for the money.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Not concerned about no talks with Jones, and I fully agree he's very overpaid and his next contract, wherever that will be will be much more reflective of his current value IMO.

However, I do find the thought process by many in here when it comes to Jones and vets that we simply replace them with young players in our system amusing. Jones for everything he is, hasn't been remotely at risk to losing his job to anyone we have in the system because we don't have anyone in our system who is close to bringing what he brings on the ice. If we were to replace all of Hudler, Russel, Wideman, Jones, Stajan, heck even Bollig with guys in Stockton, this team is going to take a serious step backwards next year, even with consistent progression of Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Brodie and Hamilton. We simply don't have the NHL ready prospects to replace those guys.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we need to bring back Jones necessarily. And I also think the Flames need to make smart long term decisions with some of these vet assets who may have trade value (Hudler, Russell, even Wideman at some point). But we can't simply let all these bodies go and replace from within if we want this team to progress and our young core to progress at its best. We are going to need to bring back some, or acquire some other replacements (UFA or trade route) to complete this team. There simply aren't enough ready guys in the AHL who are NHL caliber players right now.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Stajan? yes but Jones no. What does he bring to the table a farm hand like Shore or Agostino can't?

Stajan is a locker room guy, I wish he was a bout a mill cheaper but even at his current price he's ok. Jones, however is a mediocre player.

Bollig should remain as the 13th forward. Stajan should stay. Raymond and Jones should be left in Colorado tonight or put on a wrong flight with Agostino and Grant coming up.

Jones is an NHL player, Shore and Agostino aren't

[btimbit]

If you can get Jones for 2 mil or under, for 2 years or less, I'm 100% for it. If not, then I find he's replaceable. AHL team struggling or not, there are guys that can make the jump. Shore, Hathaway and Agostino might not thrive and turn into superstars,but they won't look out of place either. Grant is ready.

Hamilton id like to see a bit of as well.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Jones is an NHL player, Shore and Agostino aren't

It's hard to say how they would do with NHL minutes until they get them. Jones is a pretty low bar though. If they can't even approach that at their ages, it doesn't speak well to their prospects of ever making the NHL, in any capacity. Maybe our prospect pool isn't as good as we think it is?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Stajan? yes but Jones no. What does he bring to the table a farm hand like Shore or Agostino can't?

Stajan is a locker room guy, I wish he was a bout a mill cheaper but even at his current price he's ok. Jones, however is a mediocre player.

Bollig should remain as the 13th forward. Stajan should stay. Raymond and Jones should be left in Colorado tonight or put on a wrong flight with Agostino and Grant coming up.

You think Shore and Agostino can be penciled in for 30 points a year, 15 plus goals a season, the ability to play on multiple lines, the ability to go through stretches throughout the season on the top line with Johnny and Monahan and have that line not miss a beat?

Cause that's what Jones brings every year. It's one thing when these debates happen about Bollig, but when we start having these convos about a player of Jones' caliber (overpaid or not) really starts to show who has no idea on the difference between guys who are NHL caliber and fringe players. Very easy to see Jones on line 4 right now and go, well any warm body can do that and be younger and cheaper, but it totally ignores all the other things Jones does. Replace Jones with Ago right now and our 4th line gets much worse defensively, and over the course of the next 40 games we miss out on Jones' hot streaks where he literally plays well enough to be in our top 6 for patches, cause Ago simply doesn't have that in him, at least not yet.

[Vinny01]

I didn't like the trade that brought Jones here in the first place but it proved to be a decent deal on the long run. Thanks to the CBO we were able to dump SOB and then when it came down to Jones vs Tanguay Hones filled a need where Tangs didn't want to be here.

Jones was a key player on a great line against Vancouver in the playoffs scoring some goals and being physical. Having said that he should not be retained. This team does not need to give 30+ bottom 6 wingers contracts.

Trade him at the deadline if you can get a 3rd or better.

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, he was saying that Stajan has had a 2-goal season. He never has. Are you so thick that you can't see the plain and obvious meaning of those words?

He was also implying that goal production is the only thing Stajan brings to the team, which is ludicrous; but other people have already taken him apart on that one.



Oh, get over yourself. I'm typing words on a goddamn message board. You're the one who thinks it's a huge deal if anyone dares to disagree with you.

How do you know what I was saying?

I actually meant he can take this 2 goal season (so far) and ply it elsewhere. To be clearer I should have said he can take his 4.42 (averaged for the year) season elsewhere. Or I could also have said he could take his 6.42/ year goal average that he has accumulated with the Flames elsewhere.

Stajan is who he is and his 6.42 goals per year averaged over his Flames career (I want to get it right) plus his awesome intangibles are replaceable.

It's only a message board sheesh.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

How do you know what I was saying?

Because you said it. Duh.