Now was it Disney that ultimately made the decision or Abrams himself? Probably the former.
I would say it was Disney. Adding another 20 minutes of footage would cause them to lose 1 showing/screen every day. Add in the fact they can add in the deleted scenes in a super duper blu ray collectors set for $100, and you can see their reasoning. Don't like it. But like everything else, it's about the money.
I know I'm inviting a big expanded universe explanation here, but what is the deal with Storm Troopers? So they started out as clones of one dude, but now obviously they are not. Did they find more than one source for genes, or are they now just normal people wearing the armour? When did this change happen?
I feel like this should at least have some explanation in the movies, as most people who watch just the movies may be wondering WTF is going on...or maybe it's just me...
There's a line from Ren after Finn defects that's like "Maybe I should recommend to Snoke he go with a clone army" and Hux replies with "My stormtroopers are raised from birth to be loyal soldiers!"
Or something like that.
So most of them are clones, but Finn was part of a group that were taken from their families and brainwashed/raised to be soldiers.
Worst movie I've seen in years (I don't watch a ton of movies), there's no way I'd have sat through it if I wasn't with friends. Terrible dialogue and acting, paper thin characters with inexplicable motivations, same plot and beats as A New Hope, terribly stupid use of lightsabers (they cut through everything except leather jackets and skin, a Sith Lord with a boo-boo was no match for two complete beginners).
I was expecting this movie to be a soulless, cynical cash grab for Disney, but am honestly shocked it was as bad as it was. Fits right in with the prequels.
Rey was a Jedi's kid, just not a Skywalker. In the flash back she was a kid as someone important to her was stabbed in the back by Kylo Ren. She was there at the Jedi temple when the Knights of Ren came and destroyed it all. So now I suspect she was taken away to be hidden from Snoke and Ren. And "sold" into the care of the tubby salvaged parts buyer.
Which also means, not twins. She's a few more than a few years younger than Ren.
I like that idea, splitting off the Jedi line from strictly Skywalker would be smart in my mind.
As long as we don't have a Snoke "Rey I am your father" moment.
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I would say it was Disney. Adding another 20 minutes of footage would cause them to lose 1 showing/screen every day. Add in the fact they can add in the deleted scenes in a super duper blu ray collectors set for $100, and you can see their reasoning. Don't like it. But like everything else, it's about the money.
Not every 2 hr 15 min movie is better at 2 hr 45 min. Anyone who has endured the numbing excess of Jackson's Hobbit movies should know that. Films are edited and trimmed for more than commercial reasons.
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I know I'm inviting a big expanded universe explanation here, but what is the deal with Storm Troopers? So they started out as clones of one dude, but now obviously they are not. Did they find more than one source for genes, or are they now just normal people wearing the armour? When did this change happen?
I feel like this should at least have some explanation in the movies, as most people who watch just the movies may be wondering WTF is going on...or maybe it's just me...
The original clone troopers were all clones from one source. Because of that they actually created a army of very competent soldiers. However whether by design by the Sith the Clones were grown at an accelerated rate of I think 3 to 1, and because of this they also aged at a accelerated rate and became old. I think Rex in Rebels was only about 25 but he was probably about 75 in Clone years.
Towards the end of the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire Palpatine was facing a aging army with a replacement gap, Clones simply couldn't be grown fast enough to replace the aging soldiers. They were also very expensive to make. Because of that Palpatine decided on a pure human recruited army. For the most part if EU is right, most of the military wasn't conscripted, but because of the success of the Clone Army and their heroic status humans flooded military academies.
Also in EU The Kamonians eventually rebeled against the Empire and built their own clone army that was put down and the Clone facilities shut down.
For the most part by the time ANH came around most of the Storm Troopers were recruits, the few clones that were left were old and put out to pasture.
From the sounds of it, the Storm Troopers in TFA sound like a super soldier program, where they are born into the Storm Trooper Corp and trained from childhood much like the clones. But unlike the Clones where their training was about 6 years, The new Storm Troopers were probably trained for 20.
What was interesting was that Finn on returning after not helping with the execution of the villagers was sent to conditioning, which means that there was some kind of indoctrination.
We also heard Ren musing that a Clone army would be better, but Hux clearly believed that their program of soldiers from birth made for a better army with better improvisation skills. We also saw that these Stormtroopers also seemed to take more individual initiative then the Troopers from the OT era.
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Palpatine (and the Empire) are/were extremely xenophobic.
They always said that, but you never really saw that in the movies.
Its funny, but they addresssed it in Darklord when Palpatine had a meeting with Mon Montha and Bail Organa and others. after the fall of the republic and one of the Senators asked the question about the treatment of non humans in the New Order.
Palpatine basically stated that yes most of his advisers and military officers were human, but that was basically just due to circumstance then by choice.
If you look at the prequels. Two of Palpatines key advisors, Sly Moore and Mas Amedda were clearly aliens, Palpatine clearly showed concern for Amedda when during the duel with Yoda he told his speaker to flee.
In the EU Thrawn was clearly an alien as well.
If you go by the purest definition of Palpatine, it wasn't aliens that he didn't trust and wanted to subjugate it was non force users, Palpatine didn't believe that they were capable of ruling themselves.
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Kylo Ren and Supreme Leader Snoke had a discussion about Darth Vader. Snoke says that he viewed Vader as an exemplary individual who let sentiment get the better of him, and Kylo agrees. The conversation also reveals that Snoke was old enough to have witnessed the Clone Wars in their entirety.
I know I'm inviting a big expanded universe explanation here, but what is the deal with Storm Troopers? So they started out as clones of one dude, but now obviously they are not. Did they find more than one source for genes, or are they now just normal people wearing the armour? When did this change happen?
I feel like this should at least have some explanation in the movies, as most people who watch just the movies may be wondering WTF is going on...or maybe it's just me...
There was one line in there that Ren said his troopers were as good as the clones when the first order generals wanted to bring in clones.
I hope that by the time that the Clone Wars had ended that Palpatine had thrown his corpse into a blast furnace.
I'm praying that Snoke isn't Plagueis.
It would basically crap all over all 6 movies.
How so?
IMO, just because Plagueis may have been alive the whole time, doesn't necessarily mean he was controlling anything. Maybe he was watching from the background in a very weakened state (ala Voldemort)?
Yeah, personally I'd prefer a big bad that ties the movies together, as opposed to a power that emerged from nowhere between the last movie and this one. I mean Han and Leia knew well of Snoke, so obviously he's been around, but I hope he wasn't just a former minion of Sidious', but someone like Plagueis whose identity will carry some weight because people will be able to look back and be like "Oh ####, it's him!"
IMO, just because Plagueis may have been alive the whole time, doesn't necessarily mean he was controlling anything. Maybe he was watching from the background in a very weakened state (ala Voldemort)?
IMO, just because Plagueis may have been alive the whole time, doesn't necessarily mean he was controlling anything. Maybe he was watching from the background in a very weakened state (ala Voldemort)?
It would make Palpatine into an incompetent failure
Enacts the greatest plan in Galactic history, the revenge of the Sith and the execution of the Grand Plan. The Jedi survive.
With his peerless power in the dark side his apprentice throws him down the well.
Follows the teaching of the Sith order, and kills his master to rise and accept the mantle of Sith Lord. Shows that he has the power of insight, but can't sense that his master isn't dead and is floating around in the background.
Having Plageuis not being anything but dead, means that Palpatine couldn't sense shifts in the force, because there would certainly be one in his old master was still floating out there. It would also mean that the greatest aspect of Palpatine which was the strategic side where he saw an opening and killed his master was bumbled.
Look the biggest aspect of the Sith, was that they believed that the Force should be concentrated with only two, a Master and an Apprentice. They thought that the Jedi who shared the Force among thousands was an aberration that made the Jedi weak. Even and its Canon from TPM novelization, Bane looked at the Sith Order of thousands and decided that it made too many weak Sith and he reformed the order to two.
So if Plageuis who was a power in the DarkSide was still floating around Palpatine would sense that Dark Side Power.
Also in your own words, making Plageuis be this series Voldemort would be to me incredibly lazy writing.
Palpatine was a great villain, he was the saving grace in the PT, and very menacing until the end in the OT, but having him fail to kill a master that he knew was obsessed with immortality would be in my mind dumb. It would make Palpatine look a lot less powerful and stupid.
Ok, I stabbed him through the face with my lightsabre, and his body is there, but he was working on immortality, so I'm just going to assume he's dead, and go about my business.
Or
Ok, I stabbed him through the face and he's lying there, sooooooo, I think I'm going to run his body through a blender, cook it in the microwave until all the Midiclorians are dead. Then put the ashes in a laser furnace to make sure.
Even in TCW, which is Canon Palpatine sensed the return of his apprentice, and the threat that he would pose and stated simply, that he was a rival, then wipped the floor with him.
Plus it would make the biggest lie in the the seduction of Anakin Skywalker meaningless.
Personally, I think that making Snoke a former inquisitor or even a surviving member of the Jedi who went dark after order 66 better.
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Last edited by CaptainCrunch; 12-30-2015 at 10:51 AM.
Could it be that Anakin/Vader awoke something that caused Plagueis to awaken and return in the form of a new person.
I think back to this scene from ROTS:
Anakin/Darth Vader is clearly infatuated with the ability to keep friends and loved ones alive.
Maybe Vader starts to look for ways to learn the power in order to help out Padme that Plagueis possessed and unknowingly awakened the soul of Plagueis.
Would also tie in the deleted scene from the movie quite nicely.
Quote:
“Kylo Ren, I watched the Galactic Empire rise, and then fall. The gullible prattle on about the triumph of truth and justice, of individualism and free will. As if such things were solid and real instead of simple subjective judgments. The historians have it all wrong. It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the Empire. You know too well what did.” Ren nodded once. “Sentiment.” “Yes. Such a simple thing. Such a foolish error of judgment. A momentary lapse in an otherwise exemplary life. Had Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment—had the father killed the son—the Empire would have prevailed. And there would be no threat of Skywalker’s return today.”
Would not only then be referencing the fact that Vader would not kill his son, but also that Vader looking into a way to control life due to his sentiment for Padme is what causes the soul of Plageuis to return.
Could it be that Anakin/Vader awoke something that caused Plagueis to awaken and return in the form of a new person.
I think back to this scene from ROTS:
Anakin/Darth Vader is clearly infatuated with the ability to keep friends and loved ones alive.
Maybe Vader starts to look for ways to learn the power in order to help out Padme that Plagueis possessed and unknowingly awakened the soul of Plagueis.
Would also tie in the deleted scene from the movie quite nicely.
Would not only then be referencing the fact that Vader would not kill his son, but also that Vader looking into a way to control life due to his sentiment for Padme is what causes the soul of Plageuis to return.
Its interesting, that quote could point to a lot of different people. If the Inquisitor survived, it would be something that he would say since he was a die hard Imperial who served Vader and knew him well.
You could even argue that Kaanan or Ezra Bridger from Rebels could fill that role as well, remember that Kaanan would have been active during the Clone Wars, and he would be fairly old by the time TFA awakens rolls around, also him falling to the Darkside would make sense if Ezra and Ahsoka fall. I could point to the hint though that Kylo collecting Vaders helmet could point to Bridger who collected Helmets, and would probably be in his 60's or so by the time TFA rolls around.
I doubt Vader would have cared all that much about the secret of saving people or looked into it, frankly when Padme died pretty much anyone that he had an attachment to died until Luke showed up. Vader was much more obsessed with finding an apprentice and continuing the rule of two by killing his master.
Part of the thing that made Vader cool was that he was crippled and scarred and clearly didn't care about healing himself using the force (EU doesn't count anymore remember, so the stuff in the horrible Shadows of the Empire where he tried to heal himself).
Vader didn't need a physical body to be powerful, he had his peerless ability in the Dark Side and learned to live with his injuries, and in fact depended on them to help his with his rage.
Maybe its just me, but I don't want a Voldemort type that makes Palpatine look foolish and sloppy.
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Last edited by CaptainCrunch; 12-30-2015 at 11:14 AM.
What you're saying makes sense for sure. But doesnt the same logic mean that he should have been able to sense the Grandmaster of the Jedi, Yoda? It's most powerful warrior in Kenobi? You'd think he would have scanned the Force for those two specifically, no?
Palpatines great evil was playing both sides and creating a galactic-wide civil-war purely so he could end up as the Emperor. It's not far fetched that he could have been as blinded by his need for power as Plageuis was by his need for immortality.
Also, perhaps Plageuis was able to become one with the force ala the Jedi, and that WAS his immortality. And therefore, Palpatine may have not been able to sense him.
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