Johnny and the 2011 NHL Draft revisited

[hockey.modern]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Boston obviously didn't think he would do it to be able to play as good as his tools would indicate.

When did Boston say this?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Which would bump Sutters success rate over Feasters success rate meaning Sutter > Feaster

Edit: Ortio isn't on the list either. Also Keith Aulie.

Sutter drafted from 04 through 10

04 - Pardy, Prust, Boyd Cracknell
05 - nothing
06 - nothing
07 - Backlund, Aulie
08 - Bouma, Brodie
09 - Ortio
10 - Arnold and Ferland

That whole list consists of 1 top pairing defenseman, 2 3rd liners, spare parts

Feaster drafted from 11 through 13

11 - Baertschi, Granlund, Gaudreau, Brossoit
12 - Jankowski, Gillies, Kulak, Culkin
13 - Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk

That list consists of 2 1st line talents, two quality goalie prospect, a top six or bust forward (Sven), 4 middle six guys (Granlund/Janko/Klimchuk/Poirier) and two defensemen that could make the NHL as 3rd pairing guys with possible further upside. Several players on that list could and likely will flame out, but the ones that have hit already are more valuable than the entire list of Sutters combined.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Sutter drafted from 04 through 10

04 - Pardy, Prust, Boyd Cracknell
05 - nothing
06 - nothing
07 - Backlund, Aulie
08 - Bouma, Brodie
09 - Ortio
10 - Arnold and Ferland

That whole list consists of 1 top pairing defenseman, 2 3rd liners, spare parts

Feaster drafted from 11 through 13

11 - Baertschi, Granlund, Gaudreau, Brossoit
12 - Jankowski, Gillies, Kulak, Culkin
13 - Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk

That list consists of 2 1st line talents, two quality goalie prospect, a top six or bust forward (Sven), 4 middle six guys (Granlund/Janko/Klimchuk/Poirier) and two defensemen that could make the NHL as 3rd pairing guys with possible further upside. Several players on that list could and likely will flame out, but the ones that have hit already are more valuable than the entire list of Sutters combined.

Meh Sutter got us Brodie, who was the main component or turning this season around.

Feaster or more like Button got us Gaudreau. You list a lot of potential under Feaster. Give it a few years when guys like Sven, Brossoit, Klimchuk etc flame out.

Besides Monahan and Gaudreau nothing is for sure on Feaster's list.

Not to mention Sutter was picking on the back half of the first half, Feaster was doing lottery picks. He really couldn't have screwed up the Monahan even if he tried.

In all Button for all the hate he used to get has figured it out as he's the common denominator under both GMs. I'm glad he has, we need couple more gems.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

When did Boston say this?

Nobody in the Bruins organization ever said anything like this. They tried to sign him to a contract similar to the one he got in Calgary.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by codynw

Nobody in the Bruins organization ever said anything like this. They tried to sign him to a contract similar to the one he got in Calgary.

At worst, Sweeney said that he felt they made a very generous and fair offer to Dougie but it became apparent that he wasn't going to fit in Boston going forward (paraphrase, of course).

That's as specific in its vagueness that anybody officially in the organization made it.

Boston has a strange history of trading away its franchise talent. Esposito, Thornton, Seguin, Kessel, Hamilton. All extenuating circumstances I'm sure, but it's a crazy pattern.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Sutter drafted from 04 through 10

04 - Pardy, Prust, Boyd Cracknell
05 - nothing
06 - nothing
07 - Backlund, Aulie
08 - Bouma, Brodie
09 - Ortio
10 - Arnold and Ferland

That whole list consists of 1 top pairing defenseman, 2 3rd liners, spare parts

Feaster drafted from 11 through 13

11 - Baertschi, Granlund, Gaudreau, Brossoit
12 - Jankowski, Gillies, Kulak, Culkin
13 - Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk

That list consists of 2 1st line talents, two quality goalie prospect, a top six or bust forward (Sven), 4 middle six guys (Granlund/Janko/Klimchuk/Poirier) and two defensemen that could make the NHL as 3rd pairing guys with possible further upside. Several players on that list could and likely will flame out, but the ones that have hit already are more valuable than the entire list of Sutters combined.

We weren't including the 1st round, it was based on percentage of success (half your list hasn't even played an NHL game) and I was half joking around because I think Feaster is out of his element when it comes to GM'ing an NHL team. Both did good and bad for the organization though.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Meh Sutter got us Brodie, who was the main component or turning this season around.

Feaster or more like Button got us Gaudreau. You list a lot of potential under Feaster. Give it a few years when guys like Sven, Brossoit, Klimchuk etc flame out.

Besides Monahan and Gaudreau nothing is for sure on Feaster's list.

Not to mention Sutter was picking on the back half of the first half, Feaster was doing lottery picks. He really couldn't have screwed up the Monahan even if he tried.

In all Button for all the hate he used to get has figured it out as he's the common denominator under both GMs. I'm glad he has, we need couple more gems.

Button actually gave Sutter credit as the one who changed the drafting philosophy in 2007 because he realized the game had changed and if you notice our drafting really started to improve from 2008 forward. Sutter deserves more credit than he gets.

[Jaydee]

This whole argument is so stupid. Different draft orders, different draft years, different organizational needs at the time, etc...

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

Except Feaster drafted Gaudreau so it will forever be Feaster > Sutter

Feaster didn't do any of the drafting other than endorsing Button's or Weisbrod's picks.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Meh Sutter got us Brodie, who was the main component or turning this season around.

Feaster or more like Button got us Gaudreau. You list a lot of potential under Feaster. Give it a few years when guys like Sven, Brossoit, Klimchuk etc flame out.

Besides Monahan and Gaudreau nothing is for sure on Feaster's list.

Not to mention Sutter was picking on the back half of the first half, Feaster was doing lottery picks. He really couldn't have screwed up the Monahan even if he tried.

In all Button for all the hate he used to get has figured it out as he's the common denominator under both GMs. I'm glad he has, we need couple more gems.

So it was Button who was holding Sutter back and then he figured it out? He went from drafting big slow and dumb to small and skilled once he figured it out?

There is no common denominator, one guy got one pick in 8 years after the 1st round, the other guy is likely to get 2-4 in 2 years. The Sutter years were dark years in terms of drafting.

Thank god Feaster was willing to listen to the people who knew how to scout hockey players, Sutter was rarely if ever willing to do that.

[McG]

i'm not taking sides on this one, but just to add that as much as it is the drafting at the top of the first round for immediate impact, it is the development for everyone else. Some players have the mental and physical skills needed to develop at the highest level, and some don't. Some join a good organization that will teach and give players a chance to make mistakes, and some won't. To me, it isn't just that the oilies drafted at the top, the failure as an organization to develop more than one player a year is the problem when there are 24 players on an active roster. drafting first overall means that you are literally picking 31st as well, so you should be getting a player as good as any near the bottom of the first round, and of course similar in every subsequent round.

on sutter versus feaster drafting with weisbrod and/or button, a good leader knows when to lead, and when to let others do their job. it must be very difficult to work all year on building a draft list to have the GM say "yeah, thanks for all of your hard work, but we'll take this player because I like him better."

johnny is the player that, like many, had the raw materials. what i think he also has is an ability to think the game, and watch and learn. when he went to the press box, he watched and learned, and hasn't been back there since. he has learned how to think the game, i suspect, because of his size and always playing against bigger kids. anyways, i am grateful for having drafted him, regardless of round.

Merry Christmas!

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I feel like Hamilton is the real deal and will eventually become the Flames number one defender. He's got the size and tools that no other Flames defender has and it's only a matter of getting more experience as defensemen don't hit their stride until about 25. No coincidence Brodie at 25 is just now showing he's the Flames best defender.

Some fans are completely crazy to expect Hamilton to walk into a #1 role at age 22. this kid is as close to the total package for a dman as you can get...give him a little time.

I still remember a defender in the early 90's who after having a great rookie season at age 21 struggled off and on for the next couple of seasons before getting it together for good, he went on to win 7 Norris trophy's(first one at age 31) and 4 Stanley cups(first one at age 26) I'm sure I don't need to say his name.