Do we re-sign Jiri Hudler?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Don't necessarily disagree that Hudler should be traded but moving him for picks does not address the Flames needing to get better.

Depends on who those picks turn into. The Flames' window is 3-5 years from now, I figure. It's entirely possible picks next year figure into the Flames getting better.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Depends on who those picks turn into. The Flames' window is 3-5 years from now, I figure. It's entirely possible picks next year figure into the Flames getting better.

Sure it's possible but it seems to me the original poster was saying the Flames aren't good enough now. The Flames have a lot of things going for them but the one thing we don't have now are too many top six wingers despite targeting that area with first rounders in the 2013 draft in particular.

Even if you don't think the window is for another 3 to 5 years, you have to address the holes that are in our roster now. I don't think moving Hudler does that. We don't have anyone stepping up into the hole that would be left by him right now. In fact, we need him to step up and fill the hole himself by being the player he was last season. If that happens, the window may open sooner than 3 to 5 years.

[CSharp]

Flames are still rebuilding and Hudler is a piece that can be traded to get another building block to compliment Gaudreau. I like Hudler, but the Flames need to get bigger in size.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Flames are still rebuilding and Hudler is a piece that can be traded to get another building block to compliment Gaudreau. I like Hudler, but the Flames need to get bigger in size.

Ok, if you are trading Hudler to get another building block to compliment JG who else is going with him? Bennett? Monahan? Brodie?

[Stay Golden]

Yes resign Jiri but only for around 4m and a 2 year. His game has definitely dipped compared to either of the last 2 seasons.
If not traded for a nice return.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok, if you are trading Hudler to get another building block to compliment JG who else is going with him? Bennett? Monahan? Brodie?

Yeah, you're going off too hard man. Why are you debating with extremes? Hudler has trade value, you can get a good return for him. Every single debate point you bring up validates the belief. So why do the Flames have to move more players? I get it, I love Hudler too, and I repeat I've gone off on the Hudler tangent myself before. Everyone fully understands you want the team to re-sign Hudler. But you're talking in circles trying to convince everyone trading Hudler is bad and keeping him is good.

In the end, you will see like I have eventually... that moving Hudler is the best course of action.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yeah, you're going off too hard man. Why are you debating with extremes? Hudler has trade value, you can get a good return for him. Every single debate point you bring up validates the belief. So why do the Flames have to move more players? I get it, I love Hudler too, and I repeat I've gone off on the Hudler tangent myself before. Everyone fully understands you want the team to re-sign Hudler. But you're talking in circles trying to convince everyone trading Hudler is bad and keeping him is good.

In the end, you will see like I have eventually... that moving Hudler is the best course of action.

I am not going to hard, he said a building block to compliment Johnny Gsudreau. That means a top line RW that is young. You think Hudler alone is fetching that?

[Galakanokis]

^^^ Draft picks man. Jesus.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

^^^ Draft picks man. Jesus.

That isn't what was implied. Unless he meant a top 5 draft pick in which case my point still applies.

[MoreDrank]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

That isn't what was implied. Unless he meant a top 5 draft pick in which case my point still applies.

This is taking Hudler's career season last year way too seriously. He's good. Not great. Certainly not elite.

The team's already got one risky "leadership" contract in Gio. Can't afford another one, especially with Wideman and Smid and Raymond and Englland still on the books for the near future. Not exactly movable contracts there.

Indeed, the Flames have serious depth problems on the RW, in both the short and long term. Nothing in the prospect system suggests that will change unless something new shakes down in the draft. So the shallow prospect and roster player depth on the RW will likely need to be addressed via trade or free agency. Okposo is out there and he's 27.

Signing Hudler hobbles the team's contract situation and does not really address the problem of depth here. There's no way the team can fit Hudler in at more than his $4 mil cap hit. Dude's going to want a raise and at least a three year commitment.

Trading an expiring contract is not going to net a top five pick but that's fine. Acquiring assets is still better than walking away for nothing. Take a pick, see what works within the roster in the meantime. Address the need during the off-season. Flames aren't going anywhere in the post-season (which isn't close to being a lock at this point) with the goaltending they have anyway.

Build for the future.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

This is taking Hudler's career season last year way too seriously. He's good. Not great. Certainly not elite.

The team's already got one risky "leadership" contract in Gio. Can't afford another one, especially with Wideman and Smid and Raymond and Englland still on the books for the near future. Not exactly movable contracts there.

Indeed, the Flames have serious depth problems on the RW, in both the short and long term. Nothing in the prospect system suggests that will change unless something new shakes down in the draft. So the shallow prospect and roster player depth on the RW will likely need to be addressed via trade or free agency. Okposo is out there and he's 27.

Signing Hudler hobbles the team's contract situation and does not really address the problem of depth here. There's no way the team can fit Hudler in at more than his $4 mil cap hit. Dude's going to want a raise and at least a three year commitment.

Trading an expiring contract is not going to net a top five pick but that's fine. Acquiring assets is still better than walking away for nothing. Take a pick, see what works within the roster in the meantime. Address the need during the off-season. Flames aren't going anywhere in the post-season (which isn't close to being a lock at this point) with the goaltending they have anyway.

Build for the future.

Lots of good points here and I respect what you are saying. I just don't see how the team can address losing Hudler in the off season. If Okposo hits the market he is going to be looking for a huge pay day, more than Hudler for sure. Also, if the team is in a playoff spot at the deadline or really close and you trade Hudler I worry about the message that sends to that group of guys in that dressing room. It is a tough one. I still think if the best offer at the deadline is a long shot prospect or a low ball offer you keep him and at worst let him walk for nothing at the end of the year.

[Yoho]

Even if a second rounder is all we get, take it at the deadline and move on.

[Da_Chief]

Why Hudler should be traded:

-He hasn't looked like his old self
-Gaudreau is offensive catalyst on this team not Hudler
-Need to get bigger up front
-Salary and term Hudler will command will hurt the Flames moving forward
-Trade him for futures, which can be picks
-Picks can be used in another Hamilton like situation to get the RW

For me the two biggest things to look at:

Gaudreau is what drives the offence from top line so why would you pay Hudler 5+ mill to be a complimentary piece, when you can lineup a much cheaper player with Gaudreau and Monahan and have similar success?

2nd is the picks/futures. Trieliving used the extra picks last year to get Hamilton, they're a currency, you don't have to use them all and you can trade them and get immediate help right away. Hamilton isn't the only trade like that:

Reinhart in edmonton was bought with excess picks. Bust but who cares.
Palmieri(27 points in 35 games) in NJ was bought with later picks. Top liner.
Lehner was bought with Isles 1st rounder. Brought in to be their starter.

There will be more of those trades available as guys are waiver eligible/need a change of scenery. You still need to draft players but have extra picks to be able to acquire those type of guys.

I'm all for trading Hudler/Jones/Russell and even Backlund for picks. They are complimentary pieces. Gaudreau/Monahan/Gio/Brodie/Hamilton/Bennett are the core, these 6 alone will be eating up around half the cap in coming years. You still need 14 other players with about ~35 million. You can't spend 5+ mill of that on guys like Hudler when you've already invested over 4 into Frolik.

[Vinny01]

I don't see Hudler with the team next year unless he signs a short term deal at similar money he is making now.

Do the Flames trade him when they could push for a home ice advantage in the 1st round? This is different than Glencross, who last year played his way out of the top 6 last season. Hudler is not the first line talent we had last year but is still a top 6 winger and we lack them

[Hackey]

If he's gonna walk I'd rather see him dealt than see the team worry about playoffs this year but that's just me.

[Mister Yamoto]

I voted to keep him.

Hudler will likely score more points than Stajan, Backlund and Raymond. All guys who are currently making pretty nice $$$. If the Flames can open the vaults for players who don't produce then they can also pay players who do.

And I would love to see the Flames make the playoffs or win a round. I just don't see the benefit of stripping a middle of the pack team for a couple of picks that will take years to develop or just bust outright.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

I voted to keep him.

Hudler will likely score more points than Stajan, Backlund and Raymond. All guys who are currently making pretty nice $$$. If the Flames can open the vaults for players who don't produce then they can also pay pl ayers who do.

And I would love to see the Flames make the playoffs or win a round. I just don't see the benefit of stripping a middle of the pack team for a couple of picks that will take years to develop or just bust outright.

I'd say the fact the Flames are overpaying a few guys is why they can't overpay another. Hudler is on the decline, yet will want more money because that's how being a UFA with a career season works. I'd hazard a bet that you can put a middling player in the top line spot that Hudler owned all last year and he'd do OK. In fact, Jones proved that this year.

So best case scenario, trade him for good value (including future value).

[Dajazz]

Hudler is exactly the player that you trade when you are in a rebuild. He's looking to get paid and he is on the decline. Additionally, we need to replace his dollars with preferrably a bit if size and snarl.

On the other hand, he's contributing 50+ points per year, is a good locker team guy according to media and can move up and down the line up.

For the long term, Treliving needs to trade him. Short term, as many have mentioned - what does it signal to the club if we are fighting for a spot?

Difficult decision. If this was two years ago and his contract was expiring its a no brainer.

[Huntingwhale]

I say trade him. I'm a huge Hudler fan but I see it playing out 3 ways.

1. We keep Hudler for the playoff push. Hopefully re-sign him. Now we have an older, smaller, soft declining player signed until he is in his mid-30s. Then when his next contract expires, we are in the same boat again. Only this time, he's older, less effective and won't garner as much as of a return. It's the Iggy scenario all over again. We don't get a decent return and we all complain he should have been traded 3-4 years sooner. Just like Iggy.

2. We keep Hudler for the playoff push. Get bumped in round 1 (2 if we are lucky) because the team isn't a contender yet. Lose him for nothing in the off season OR Treliving trades his rights at the draft, but get's nothing close to what he could have gotten at the deadline.

3. Explore all trade options now. Garner a decent return for him before the deadline.

Option 3 seems the best to me. Yes it leaves a gap in the top 6. But as said before, that gap is going to exist no matter what barring another miraculous Treliving trade. Better to deal with it at present while Hudler is still in his early 30s, instead of waiting another 3-4 years down the road while trying to get him to recapture his previous production.

The team is still rebuilding. The day Hudler was signed I figured he could get a decent return at some point. We got him for free. Time to cash in on that asset and advance the rebuild.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

Hudler is exactly the player that you trade when you are in a rebuild. He's looking to get paid and he is on the decline. Additionally, we need to replace his dollars with preferrably a bit if size and snarl.

On the other hand, he's contributing 50+ points per year, is a good locker team guy according to media and can move up and down the line up.

For the long term, Treliving needs to trade him. Short term, as many have mentioned - what does it signal to the club if we are fighting for a spot?

Difficult decision. If this was two years ago and his contract was expiring its a no brainer.

At the end of the day, he can only do one thing. It seems to me that the prudent course of action would be to look after the club's long term needs over the short term ones. I would have a different opinion if the team was a legitimate contender but it's really only year 3 of the re-build. The locker room isn't going to be destroyed if Hudler is traded, I'm sure all the players and coaches are well aware it is a distinct possibility.