[Signing] Wild sign Spurgeon to extension (4 yrs, $5.1875 mil AAV)

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I would rather sign a Paul Martin type vet for 2-3 years to replace Russell than sign him for more than 4 million a year.

Seriously? Martin is terrible but Russell isn't getting $4+ million from the flames anyway, With almost $25 million in D signed for next year the only thing to look forward to is a minor league player making under a million not an over paid bum like Martin making $5m.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by T@T

Seriously? Martin is terrible but Russell isn't getting $4+ million from the flames anyway, With almost $25 million in D signed for next year the only thing to look forward to is a minor league player making under a million not an over paid bum like Martin making $5m.

I don't really care who it is really, we will likely need a stop gap guy for next season unless one of Nakladal, Kulak, Culkin, or Wotherspoon graduate. If the Flames could acquire a legit longer term top 4 guy that would work as well as they wouldn't have to then search for a Wideman replacement after next season.

Kylington/Hickey/Andersson will likely be pushing for spots to replace Smid/Engelland once they're done.

Just don't want Russell back as he doesn't have the size or defensive acumen necessary for the Flames to take that next step if he's in the top 4.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Flames absolutely have to move one or more of Smid, Wideman, or Engellend if they even want to consider re-signing Russell.

They shouldn't even want to consider reupping Russell. Russell is one of Hartley's blindspots... he get's way to much icetime even while turning in a subpar performance night in night out. I'm not sure I'd consider re-signing Russell if he offered to take a paycut.

[sureLoss]

http://www.startribune.com/wild-note...ion/363210851/

Next season, Spurgeon will be the Wild’s second-highest paid defenseman behind Ryan Suter. Those two, plus Jonas Brodin and Marco Scandella, eat up $21 million on the blue line and pending restricted free agent Matt Dumba has yet to be extended.

Fletcher said the Wild can afford each. But with Gustav Olofsson and Mike Reilly also developing, Fletcher said the blue-line depth could “absolutely” spur future trades. Fletcher specifically mentioned a lack of depth at center.

“Our defense is the strength of our team, it gives us depth and may give us the opportunity to look at different options down the road,” Fletcher said.

[Erick Estrada]

If I was Treliving I trade Russell at the deadline and leave Hartley to run with Wotherspoon or another deserving defenseman from the farm next season. This organization has done well breaking in forwards from the farm but outside of Brodie they have done a poor job in regards to giving their drafted defensemen chances to make the big team. Kind of seems silly to fill the 5/6 gaps with veteran NHL defenseman when you are in a rebuild.

[Imported_Aussie]

I would trade Russell to open up a spot for Nakladal. That way he gets an extended look to decide if they re-sign him or not. He looked solid in his time as a callup and from all accounts is too good for the AHL.
Signing Russell to a deal making big money would hurt the Flames. At least with Wideman, Engelland and Smid they call come off the books after next season.

The way I see the Flames D corps going forward is a big 3 of Brodie, Hamilton and Giordano, a solid veteran depth guy via UFA, then youngsters coming up through the ranks (Kulak, Culkin, Wotherspoon, Andersson, Kylington, Hickey). Next year they have a couple of extra veterans as a stop gap, then the younger guys come up - which will be needed as the young forwards come of ELCs next year (Monahan, Gaudreau) and the year after (Bennett)

[Erick Estrada]

I agree it's time to start moving in youngsters on this blueline and no more of this paying $3+ million for 5/6 guys when players like Gadreau and Monahan are due for big raises. If you give most coaches the choice between a mediocre veteran defenseman or young prospect for a 5/6 spot they are always going to pick the veteran because coaches are always in job preservation mode. The key is the GM not giving the coach that option and forcing him to play the guys that the organization has invested in.

[heep223]

None of our D prospects have shown that they can take a regular shift in the NHL at this point.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If I was Treliving I trade Russell at the deadline and leave Hartley to run with Wotherspoon or another deserving defenseman from the farm next season. This organization has done well breaking in forwards from the farm but outside of Brodie they have done a poor job in regards to giving their drafted defensemen chances to make the big team. Kind of seems silly to fill the 5/6 gaps with veteran NHL defenseman when you are in a rebuild.

Well, the track record for developing defenseman is certainly what it is. Does that mean they aren't developing their defenseman properly or just not drafting the right guys?

Who have they failed with that has gone on to salvage his career elsewhere? How many examples of this are there.

Who has been a can't miss defense prospect that the Flames didn't develop?

There is a failure here somewhere but is it in development or in drafting?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by heep223

None of our D prospects have shown that they can take a regular shift in the NHL at this point.

Which would be an issue except that many of the vets on the blueline haven't been showing that they can still take quality regular shifts in the NHL anymore.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by heep223

None of our D prospects have shown that they can take a regular shift in the NHL at this point.

That just isn't true.

Wotherspoon has shown that he most definitely can play in the NHL. The fact that Hartley doesn't like him is not proof that he isn't ready (coaches have their preferences too).

In 2013/14, he played 14 games. There was a 5 game stretch where he got 15 minutes or more of ice-time in each of the games (the only 5 games he has ever gotten that much ice-time from Hartley). In those games he had 3 apples and was a +1.

Last year, he only got more than 6 minutes once - it was a playoff game against ANA where they lost 6-1 and in 14+ minutes, he was even.

Nakladal also looks to be NHL-ready.

And Kulak is close.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That just isn't true.

Wotherspoon has shown that he most definitely can play in the NHL. The fact that Hartley doesn't like him is not proof that he isn't ready (coaches have their preferences too).

In 2013/14, he played 14 games. There was a 5 game stretch where he got 15 minutes or more of ice-time in each of the games (the only 5 games he has ever gotten that much ice-time from Hartley). In those games he had 3 apples and was a +1.

Last year, he only got more than 6 minutes once - it was a playoff game against ANA where they lost 6-1 and in 14+ minutes, he was even.

Nakladal also looks to be NHL-ready.

And Kulak is close.

Agreed Kulak could be close, but not there yet. Also re Nakladal I am interested to see what he can do. Neither have proven that they can take a regular NHL shift (Nakladal hasn't gotten a chance yet).

I disagree re Wotherspoon though, and I'm not appealing to authority as my argument, I'm basing it off the fact that I watched every game he played and IMO he was over his head. His foot speed and pivots aren't nearly NHL caliber, he's not that physical, he's an ok skater, he's not very offensive, his reads looked slow. Just my opinion, he's had quite a few chances and I don't think he's going to be a regular NHLer.

We do have some nice D prospects but they are years away from being ready.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That just isn't true.

Wotherspoon has shown that he most definitely can play in the NHL. The fact that Hartley doesn't like him is not proof that he isn't ready (coaches have their preferences too).

In 2013/14, he played 14 games. There was a 5 game stretch where he got 15 minutes or more of ice-time in each of the games (the only 5 games he has ever gotten that much ice-time from Hartley). In those games he had 3 apples and was a +1.

Last year, he only got more than 6 minutes once - it was a playoff game against ANA where they lost 6-1 and in 14+ minutes, he was even.

Nakladal also looks to be NHL-ready.

And Kulak is close.

This is what I mean. Treliving simply can't give Hartley the option of dressing 6 veteran defensemen. It's time to give one or two of these guys fair opportunity. IMO Hartley feels Wotherspoon has to be better than say Smid to get into the lineup. Where I beg to differ is that Wotherspoon only needs to be as good because he's got upside Smid does not. Smid's a warrior but man is he ever slow out there.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This is what I mean. Treliving simply can't give Hartley the option of dressing 6 veteran defensemen. It's time to give one or two of these guys fair opportunity. IMO Hartley feels Wotherspoon has to be better than say Smid to get into the lineup. Where I beg to differ is that Wotherspoon only needs to be as good because he's got upside Smid does not. Smid's a warrior but man is he ever slow out there.

Plus, Wotherspoon saves you about $2.5M

He doesn't have to be as good as Smid or Engelland, he just has to be close. The real question is: is he, plus $2 - $2.5M for another player, better than Smid?

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I agree it's time to start moving in youngsters on this blueline and no more of this paying $3+ million for 5/6 guys when players like Gadreau and Monahan are due for big raises. If you give most coaches the choice between a mediocre veteran defenseman or young prospect for a 5/6 spot they are always going to pick the veteran because coaches are always in job preservation mode. The key is the GM not giving the coach that option and forcing him to play the guys that the organization has invested in.

I agree but you know when Russell walks that just means a Smid-Engelland bottom pairing. I've been waiting a decade for that slow old overpaid #6 defenseman's contract to run out so we can finally play a prospect in that spot. Never happens. There's always a new Vandermeer, Staios, Sarich, Engelland etc.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Nakladal could be our 7th right now IMO.

As others have said you'd have to trade one of Smid, Engelland or Wideman if you wanna re-sign Russell. I wouldn't overpay for Russell. Reminds me of the Ference situation many years back. Guy is probably an ideal #5 guy but can easily play in your top 4 (we're talking Ference in his prime, not now). Heart and soul guy who you love but can't afford to overpay.

Be interesting to see how Treliving handles it. Something will have to give either at the deadline or this summer.

[ricardodw]

If you actually believe that Hamilton is the Flames 2nd or even 3rd best d-man then there should be no consideration at signing Russell for any more than what he is making now.

Hamilton with any of Wideman Smid or Engelland should be an extremely solid 2nd pairing.


The only reason anyone should consider signing Russell is if they think that he may just be a little better than Hamilton and Hamilton is not ready to be the guy that can play as well as Gio-Brodie.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Nakladal could be our 7th right now IMO.

As others have said you'd have to trade one of Smid, Engelland or Wideman if you wanna re-sign Russell. I wouldn't overpay for Russell. Reminds me of the Ference situation many years back. Guy is probably an ideal #5 guy but can easily play in your top 4 (we're talking Ference in his prime, not now). Heart and soul guy who you love but can't afford to overpay.

Be interesting to see how Treliving handles it. Something will have to give either at the deadline or this summer.

totally agree.... But right now ... over the Hamilton (and Flames) surge.. it would look like the coaching staff thinks that Russell is the veteran is baby-sitting Hamilton. Would like to see how Hamilton does with another d-partner before dumping Russell.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Nakladal could be our 7th right now IMO.

As others have said you'd have to trade one of Smid, Engelland or Wideman if you wanna re-sign Russell. I wouldn't overpay for Russell. Reminds me of the Ference situation many years back. Guy is probably an ideal #5 guy but can easily play in your top 4 (we're talking Ference in his prime, not now). Heart and soul guy who you love but can't afford to overpay.

Be interesting to see how Treliving handles it. Something will have to give either at the deadline or this summer.

I wouldn't be surprised if the plan is to trade Russell like they did with Glencross a year ago and possibly have Nakladal slot into Russell's vacated spot that way they don't interfere too much with the bottom pairing.

Nakladal is also more of a defensively responsible D-man, so he is able to hold his own in his own zone. Could allow Hamilton to jump into the play more possibly.

[Strange Brew]

The team needs to bite the bullet on these over priced vets on the blueline. Wideman, Smid, Engelland are all overpaid and hurting the team's salary structure.

Although signing Russell to a reasonable contract sounds appealing, I would rather see some picks acquired at the deadline that can be flipped or used in the summer.

Either way, this team is locked in with its top three on D. Need to get younger and cheaper with the other spots.

As for Spurgeon, he is a quality defender for sure, but I am glad the Flames didn't sign him to this contract.