McKenzie: Gaudreau and Monahan could be the Calgary Flames' Toews and Kane

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by bax

Toews is the most overrated player in the NHL. I can't believe some people think he's the best player in the league. He isn't even the best player on his team.

Yeah. 3 cups, 2 WJHC Gold, 2 Olympic gold, most outstanding player in the Olympics, Youngest Captain to win a cup, etc, etc, etc

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by bax

Toews is the most overrated player in the NHL. I can't believe some people think he's the best player in the league. He isn't even the best player on his team.

Points don't mean everything in Hockey amd Toews is an example of just that, he's never been a point hound, is under a PPG for his career, but the guy wins where ever he goes and is usually a massive piece to the puzzle for whatever team he's been a part of.

When I think over-rated players over the past few years I look at guys like Thornton, Sedin's, Kessel, Staal's, ect. players who are highly thought of, put up tonnes and tonnes of points but at the end of the day never have anything to show for it.

Toews is probably one of the top 5 players in the league that if given the opportunity GM's would choose to build their team around. I mean look at Street P's post, Toews is just 27 and he already has a career that the elite dream to put up.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Zetterberg is not as good as Toews. Nor is Kopitar. I'm sorry. No.

Can you explain this one to me? What makes Toews better than Kopitar. Lots of people say it, but nobody can give a good reason why.

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Yeah. 3 cups, 2 WJHC Gold, 2 Olympic gold, most outstanding player in the Olympics, Youngest Captain to win a cup, etc, etc, etc

That looks like a lot of team accomplishments to me. And I don't even think he was the best player on most of those teams.

[Weitz]

Toews: The only professional sports player in the world that uses team accomplishments to establish pedigree.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by codynw

Can you explain this one to me? What makes Toews better than Kopitar. Lots of people say it, but nobody can give a good reason why.



That looks like a lot of team accomplishments to me. And I don't even think he was the best player on most of those teams.

Well, he sure was on the 2007 WJC team. He was also named best forward at the 2010 Olympics, FWIW.

[codynw]

Bryan Bickell has 3 Stanley Cups. Best player in the NHL!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Toews: The only professional sports player in the world that uses team accomplishments to establish pedigree.

The object of the game is to win. I know you're an Oiler fan, but still...

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The object of the game is to win. I know you're an Oiler fan, but still...

So because the players on his team were good enough to win the championships it makes him a great player?

Is there any other player in any other league, or even in the NHL in its history, that has to use team accomplishments to be in talks of the best player of their time?

[codynw]

If everything else is equal and you replace Toews with Crosby on those Hawks teams, they still have 3 cups. Maybe more.

[bigalspratty]

As much as we can look for a Toews comparison, why not draw on a Kopitar/Monahan comparison? Feels much more aligned than Toews. I think on a personality basis, we should be comparing Giordano to Toews; level headed, hard nosed and the heart of the team.

Sure Toews, Kane and the 'Hawks have accomplished a lot but so have the Kings on a similar pedigree - be bad, draft well, develop, win. The pieces they add are rarely "prized" free agents (Hossa withstanding), but they reload season after every season.

Also, its worth noting that a huge key to the success of Chicago is coaching. Coach Q has them loaded up every night and knows how to manage his team. I am not saying Hartley doesn't, but to reach the next echelon it will take buying 110% into what the coach is saying.

I like the Kane/Gaudreau comparison; I think it speaks a lot to the dynamic offensive powers that they are, but Toews/Monahan is a little hard to reach.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by codynw

Can you explain this one to me? What makes Toews better than Kopitar. Lots of people say it, but nobody can give a good reason why.



That looks like a lot of team accomplishments to me. And I don't even think he was the best player on most of those teams.

Here's the reason Toews is better than most of the hockey players you've ever watched. Remember when Yzerman stopped going for points and tried winning instead? Toews did the same, but much earlier. I'll breakdown his accomplishments for you:

Individual:
-scored first goal in first shot in first game (more trivia than accomplishment)
-named team captain at 20
-29 points in the playoffs en route to a conn smythe
-Selke Trophy (numerous nominations)
-Mark Messier Leadership Award
-ESPY for best nhl player
-2 WJHC teams where he was the youngest player one year and the top scorer the next
-Played in WHC the same year he played in the WJHC
-Best Forward in the 2010 Olympics
-506 points in 565 regular season games, 102 points in 117 playoff games


Team achievements:
-Captain to 3 Stanley Cups
-Two Olympic Gold Medals
-Two WJHC Gold
-One WHC Gold in the same year he got a WJHC Gold
-Youngest player ever to be a part of the triple gold club (Olympic Gold, Stanley Cup, World Championship)

[Fire of the Phoenix]

When people say Toews is over rated, they're probably pointing to the sizable portion of fans that think he is legitimately the best player in the world. Even the hockey news had him #2 or whatever. Give me a break. If Toews was drafted by the blue jackets this wouldn't even be a debate.

[JoelOtto29]

Wow, do some people ever underrate Kopitar. In my eyes, he and Toews are equals. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to find 2 players in the league that have had such similar careers. The only knock against Kopitar is that he's not Canadian.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by codynw

If everything else is equal and you replace Toews with Crosby on those Hawks teams, they still have 3 cups. Maybe more.

Ya think? It's not much of an argument against Toews being a great player to say you could replace him with the best player in the league over the last few years. In fact, it probably says the opposite.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ya think? It's not much of an argument against Toews being a great player to say you could replace him with the best player in the league over the last few years. In fact, it probably says the opposite.

Aren't you paying attention? Toews is the best player of all time.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by codynw

Aren't you paying attention? Toews is the best player of all time.

[Stud_McCool]

Hart Trophy = Most Valuable Player.
Toews doesn't have one nor do I see him ever getting one. He's surrounded by an enviable cast.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Stud_McCool

Art Ross = Most Valuable Player.
Toews doesn't have one nor do I see him ever getting one. He's surrounded by an enviable cast.

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard

[codynw]

Keith is way more important to the Blackhawks than Toews ever will be.

[GioforPM]

You can never win MVP if your team is too good.