*SPOILER DISCUSSION* Star Wars The Force Awakens *POST HERE AFTER SEEING THE MOVIE*

[zamler]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Haha, wow. Did you fall asleep during the scenes on Dagobah where Yoda taught Luke about the Force? His entire point was that you don't need to be a burly strong manly man to be a powerful Jedi.

Wait so Rey is a Jedi? Also did you notice she did a bunch of stuff that had nothing to do with Jedi powers.

[PepsiFree]

I have to agree with OutoftheCube, your perception of Star Wars seems to be largely dependant on when you experience which films.

Being pretty young and coming into the prequels at the same time as the originals, I never saw much of a difference in quality.

I re-watched them all in preparation (did 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6). What I learned, however unpopular the opinion may be, is that there is not a very big gap in quality between many of them. Phantom Menace, hated as it may be, is not much different than Empire. Nostalgia drives the original trilogy, but they're badly acted, badly written, and overall they don't hold up that well. Doesn't make them bad though. They're fun sci-fi/fantasy popcorn movies.

I saw TFA. It fit right in, and is probably close to the best of the 7 (in the mix with 5 and 3). Super fun. Great action, great story. I don't see a large point in nitpicking because I don't think you can nitpick a Star Wars movie and come out enjoying it the way you should (or any 'blockbuster' for that matter). No more plot holes or pointless characters than any other SW film.

Specifically, I think Ren and Rey are amazing central figures. All the actors (especially Daisy, Driver, Isaac, and Gleeson) REALLY added something to their characters.

Great intro film, hard to judge it much based on the immense amount of story left to be unpacked. The best intro to a SW trilogy yet.

[Regulator75]

I can finally subscribe to this thread!

Just watched it on IMAX in 3D, I can't really add much to this thread other than I really enjoyed Ep VII. It almost wipes out all the crap that the prequels were.

Well done JJ.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Nostalgia drives the original trilogy, but they're badly acted, badly written, and overall they don't hold up that well.

I could not disagree more. I watched EP4-6 (despecialized versions no Lucas hackery) and they are incredible films, they look great, have a great vibe, the acting is more than good enough. And most importantly how the entire package comes together is amazing, you start watching them and can't stop they draw you in.

Also EP7 is light years ahead of any of the prequels.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by zamler

I could not disagree more. I watched EP4-6 (despecialized versions no Lucas hackery) and they are incredible films, they look great, have a great vibe, the acting is more than good enough. And most importantly how the entire package comes together is amazing, you start watching them and can't stop they draw you in.

Also EP7 is light years ahead of any of the prequels.

Mark Hamill is legitimately one of the worst actors I've ever seen in a highly celebrated film.

Again though, I really enjoy 4-6 for what they are but it seemed to become en vogue to trash the prequels when I just cannot for the life of me see the big difference. My point isn't that people should like 4-6 less but that 1-3 and even 7 seem to get criticisms that no one would dare make about 4-6, even though they're right there, waiting for you to make them.

They're all worth your love and best enjoyed with heart and mind open and the critic in you turned off.

[chubeyr1]

Let me sing the same tune as others. All the prequels sucked bad compared to this movie.

Is it perfect no, but its really good
.
Had enough of the old characters, and introduced solid new characters. Also Blood! When was there ever blood in star wars?

This new movie makes other movies in the franchise possible. Gave the youth what they wanted, gave us old farts what we wanted.
No jarhead binks! Thank god!

[Wormius]

4 and 5 are nearly perfect. 6 has some drawn out scenes on Endor that could have been cut down or dedicated to something else.

I don't think episodes 1 to 3 really did what they were supposed to. What is funny is that the Clone Wars cartoons much better show Anakin as an affable Jedi with his relationship to Obi Wan. Nothing in episode I to III really showed Anakin in any positive light. Always angry and brooding; not buddies with Obi Wan. His transition to the dark side was kind of shoe horned in whenever convenient. The video posted in the spoiler-free thread about how the prequels should have been made are spot on. There is just no chemistry between characters and no reason to feel anything for them.

[Tinordi]

If you think that the prequels and the original trilogy are generally the same in quality then you don't think.

[Tinordi]

Liked the movie, though I think it was a bit too heavy handed with the allusion to the the original trilogy. And that's what, in my opinion will really make or break the next movies.

Now that they've exorcised any spiritual connection to the prequels with this movie, they'll need to put their own stamp on the following movies. They have new strong characters and now they'll need new stories and adventures to set them on. If they continue to follow the general narrative trajectory of the original trilogy then the movies will fail.

Thankfully I don't think this will happen. But there we'll always be a temptation to go with what has worked before and serve dollops of reference to fans. The real genius of the new movies will be providing new material and attachments. Like what will be these movies millennium falcon? What will be the iconic spaceship and characters that young kids watching now will want to share with their offspring in thirty years.

Tall order, may be too tall, but either way you get my point.

[robaur]

Kylo Ren looks like a malnourished Darth Vader wannabe. It's almost as if he decided to go to Toys R Us and buy a Halloween costume.

Was getting into the character when he had his mask on but when he took it off...I lost all "fear" that you're supposed to have for a a lead villain. Looked like a prepubescent boy with daddy issues.

Don't forget that he got his ass beat by a chick who picked up the lightsaber for the first time. Like seriously? The guy has been training his whole life and has been guided by Luke Skywalker....is also his blood...but gets his ass beat by someone in their first lightsaber duel....and we, as audience members, are supposed to fear this villain? LOL!

[nik-]

Just got home from it. Enjoyable movie. I was starting to get concerned as the movie was going along as there was just too much straight lifted from ANH. Desert planet, crucial droid happens across our new protagonist, gotta lower the shield on the new planet killer and attack it. Was getting worried as the fan service was going, imo, too far.

However, the Kylo Ren and Rey aspect really did make this a great movie. When Han got to Kylo, and Kylo said "I need you to help me" the obvious thought was "he's going to kill his dad", but I wasn't sure they'd have the balls to do it. I'm so glad they did. I love the Han Solo character, but that single act added more gravity to the movie than anything even thought about approaching in the prequels. There is now a bad guy that matters, and that's a pretty welcome change. When Rey said to him "You're scared you'll never be as powerful as Darth Vader" ... I was like ooooooooh shiiiiiiiit. I have no problem with him not being able to beat Rey. He's scared, he's doubting his powers, this girl has come and he knows she's truly powerful, but raw. Like Yoda said, the Dark Side isn't more powerful, just quicker and more seductive.

So the question is, and sorry if it's been brought up as I haven't read the full thread yet. Kylo and Rey ... related? Brother and sister? edit: yes, I see it's been discussed a lot.

Bonus moments: Kylo Ren destroying the room after Rey escapes, and the two stormtroopers walk around the corner, hear it happening, and turn around and walk the other way. Perfect

Leia gets off the ship. Locks eyes with Han. Tension builds. All the past of these characters comes rushing back into your mind ... and boom, C3PO leans into the shot and kills the moment, just like always. Also perfect.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GGG

These warriors are empowered by magical bacteria. A four foot tall puppet was the strongest at one point. By your logic only the strongest race of the variety of alien species should be Jedi. If anything the stars wars encouraged physical appearance didn't matter.

The bar owner lady even rehashed what the force was to banish that ####ing atrocity of an explanation to the non-canon bin.

[peter12]

5.5/10. Mediocre. Rey and Ren were definitely bright spots.

[Tinordi]

People are projecting too much on Kylo. He's not Darth Vader that's the whole point. And I found it very believable that Rey beat him.

First, there's exposition to set it up. Kylo is conflicted, he isn't using the full dark side of the force, he's half and half and therefore weak in the face of Rey who's although very green is fully in the light side. Her purity of will compensates for her lack of training. Also Kylo was badly injured, unfocused etc.

And who knows about Rey's backstory. Very likely she had had training as well as a child probably by her father if it's Luke. She could be the new Anakin, which is strongly hinted because of her mechanical abilities. Maybe she's just incredibly strong with the force while Kylo is weak.

Either way, that's the least of my criticisms with the plot.

How about the ridiculous part where the blingtrooper turns off the shields without notifying anyone and no one noticing. Terrible.

[fanman]

Thoroughly enjoyed the movie! Imax 3D was incredible, packed theatre and great atmosphere. So glad I resisted any spoilers and didn`t watch any of the TV spots or anything other than the official trailers before seeing this. Not perfect but I thought it really captured the spirit of Star Wars.

And it blows past Jurassic World for biggest opening weekend.
http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/records/#weekend

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

People are projecting too much on Kylo. He's not Darth Vader that's the whole point. And I found it very believable that Rey beat him.

It actually even annoys me a bit that people are so hung up on that, considering how much time was spent setting up those two characters. It's like some people didn't even watch the film.

The film clearly establishes Rey as an experienced fighter who does not need help (with her short fight scene on Jakku). The interrogation scene between Rey and Kylo and the lightsaber pulling contest both make it clear that Rey is probably the stronger Force user of the two. We also see that her quick ability to pick up things is surprising to at least herself and Finn, Han, and Kylo. (In other words: all the major characters of the film.)

In contrast we see Kylo not being respected by his allies, and mostly staying in the background when there's any actual fighting happening. The film also makes a big point about Kylo being injured during the fight.

I guess they should have had a character whisper to the camera "She's going to win".

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Liked the movie, though I think it was a bit too heavy handed with the allusion to the the original trilogy. And that's what, in my opinion will really make or break the next movies.

Now that they've exorcised any spiritual connection to the prequels with this movie, they'll need to put their own stamp on the following movies.

I loved pretty much every minute of it, but I was thinking the same thing. They checked off a good majority of nostalgia/callback boxes:

-Desert planet
-Snow planet
-Forest planet
-Superweapon
-X-Wings/TIE Fighters/Falcon/Droids

Now that a lot of that has been handled and established I think we'll see them have a freer hand going forward for the next two movies. I quite enjoyed Looper and am curious to see how that director will handle it. Have they confirmed who is writing the script for it?

Oh and one big question, but it trends dangerously to the prequels and political talk. In the opening scroll we see that there is a Republic again, yet the characters we see are referred to as the Resistance. Is it plausible that the Republic went back to its no army state that it existed in before Attack of the Clones? Thus making the resistance a sort of acknowledged but not official military branch of the Republic? Perhaps one that must draw its funding from star systems and not the government proper?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Oh and one big question, but it trends dangerously to the prequels and political talk. In the opening scroll we see that there is a Republic again, yet the characters we see are referred to as the Resistance. Is it plausible that the Republic went back to its no army state that it existed in before Attack of the Clones? Thus making the resistance a sort of acknowledged but not official military branch of the Republic? Perhaps one that must draw its funding from star systems and not the government proper?

It is kind of explained on starwars.com. Don't read if you think it might spoil something for you:

Spoiler!

Essentially the Resistance is explained as an offshoot of the Republic founded by Leia to deal with the First Order. Sounds like the majority of the Republic is okay with letting the First Order just be and is focused on peace not fighting.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/the-resistance

[fanman]

They alluded to the Republic fleet in the movie, so there has to be something there. Even if they mainly pursue peace and diplomacy they need to defend themselves, especially after all they`ve been through.

I`m very interested to see how the power balance plays out. I`m thinking it`s a much more even playing field this time around with maybe a slight edge to the New Republic.
The Empire was a huge entity that controlled almost the entire galaxy, so you`d have to think that many of them weren`t exactly eager to give up their power and join the Republic.

Also the First Order did destroy the Capitol planet along with 4 or 5 others (can`t remember exactly) so there`s gotta be some push back coming, or maybe that`s me just hoping for an epic fleet battle.

One thing I`d really like to see is an ace pilot for the First Order. Someone who strikes fear into the Resistance pilots, a counter to Poe. We got Wedge in the originals and Poe now, the First Order needs their own.

[Bigtime]

I am ready to see some more new space vehicles, loved getting the nextgen X-Wings and TIE fighters but I'm ready to see a little more out there on the fleet side of things.