Pope accused of anti-Islamic remarks

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Perhaps "Catholicism" isnt the answer for these poor people then?
Maybe education would be a better start?

Hi Cheese!

Seriously, perhaps it isn't, but at the moment, it is probably the best alternative, in my opinion.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Yeah, I mean it's not as though the catholic church has ever advocated violence in the name of religion. Unless you count about a dozen crusades on the arabs, the inquisitions, various persecutions of heretical groups and pagans, the conquistadors, etc.

The sins of the fathers are not the sins of the sons.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Cheese

To some, monogamous relationships — particularly in the context of marriage — are the natural state of human beings and the foundation of civilization. Others, however, find the idea of a single mate to be boring and oppressive, prefering instead to seek multiple partners and varied experiences. Which perspective is most accurate — are people naturally monogamous or polygamous?

Who is the Catholic Church to suggest we need to be one way or the other? Do you suppose the Catholic Missionairies who travel and talk about Jesus to the African Tribes give all the religious options? Do you suppose the tribes are educated enough to be able to figure out nonsense from reality?

I believe that the Roman Catholic Church has every right to promote their religion and world view. Further I believe that Africans have the same capacity to think and rationalize as Caucasians. They will accept and reject what they want.

I also think that when you say "educated enough" the education your referring to is your world view. It isn't the Catholic churches responsibility to promote your morality or world view.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Hi Cheese!

Seriously, perhaps it isn't, but at the moment, it is probably the best alternative, in my opinion.

I dont think any religion is an alternative...

Zambian President Frederick Chiluba, who has proclaimed Christianity the state religion, has called condoms "a sign of weak morals." Early this year, Zambian health officials canceled ads prepared for state-run TV and radio after religious leaders said their promotion of condoms would lead to promiscuity.
When the Kenyan government announced plans last month to import 300 million condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS, Sheik Mohamed Dor of the Council of Imams and Preachers said the country was "committing suicide" and encouraging sexual experimentation among young people. Bemoaning the expense, President Daniel arap Moi suggested that all Kenyans instead abstain from sex for two years.

Although many religious believers see one of the purposes of religion as comforting the sick and afflicted, when it comes to AIDS religion isn't accomplishing that goal. Christianity in particular not only isn't comforting people, but in Africa it seems to be helping the disease spread faster and farther. Death by religion...or is it the murder of its own people?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Idealistic rubbish.

Have you ever had sex with someone who isn't your wife? Have you ever wrapped up? Ever used birth control?

When I was married I only had sex with my wife.

We used birth control at times. We only used condoms when she was breast feeding and before I got fixed. Obviously, I'm not Catholic though.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

When I was married I only had sex with my wife.

We used birth control at times. We only used condoms when she was breast feeding and before I got fixed. Obviously, I'm not Catholic though.

Obviously? You've never declared your sect of Christianity.

Interesting wording I see, you didn't deny pre-maritial sex.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I dont think any religion is an alternative...

Zambian President Frederick Chiluba, who has proclaimed Christianity the state religion, has called condoms "a sign of weak morals." Early this year, Zambian health officials canceled ads prepared for state-run TV and radio after religious leaders said their promotion of condoms would lead to promiscuity.
When the Kenyan government announced plans last month to import 300 million condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS, Sheik Mohamed Dor of the Council of Imams and Preachers said the country was "committing suicide" and encouraging sexual experimentation among young people. Bemoaning the expense, President Daniel arap Moi suggested that all Kenyans instead abstain from sex for two years.

Although many religious believers see one of the purposes of religion as comforting the sick and afflicted, when it comes to AIDS religion isn't accomplishing that goal. Christianity in particular not only isn't comforting people, but in Africa it seems to be helping the disease spread faster and farther. Death by religion...or is it the murder of its own people?

Well we'd both have to agree that the catholic church has more influence in sub-saharan Africa than any education system at present.
Promiscuity is already THE problem in sub-saharan Africa. So I agree with you there. Given the catholic church's influence and the success rate between the two options, I'd choose abstinence over condoms, but the church should NOT be saying that condom use or any form of birth control is 'evil'.

Fair?

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Obviously? You've never declared your sect of Christianity.

Interesting wording I see, you didn't deny pre-maritial sex.

He could be afraid of declaring himself a 'nerd'?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by White Doors

He could be afraid of declaring himself a 'nerd'?

Actually I didn't declare my "sect" because it is irrelevant to the discussion. The discussion was should the Roman Catholic church have a right to promote their moral views. I think they should be free to declare and practice what they believe.

The reason I said obviously I wasn't Catholic was because of my willingness to use birth control.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Actually I didn't declare my "sect" because it is irrelevant to the discussion. The discussion was should the Roman Catholic church have a right to promote their moral views. I think they should be free to declare and practice what they believe.

The reason I said obviously I wasn't Catholic was because of my willingness to use birth control.

Hey, have a drink & relax. Just teasing.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Why is this certain group upset? Is that something important to look at, or not important at all?

Sure. If they are reasonable people. But then we are talking about people who went rioting over cartoons (actually the faked cartoons by a Imam) from a Denmark newspaper. They killed hundreds of....umm...fellow Muslims. It obviously doesn't take much to rile them. And to make the point very stark...Mohammed has been painted, drawn and ridiculed for centuries.

Now that it is Friday we again see....tadaaaaa mass marches and riots because a foreign leader said something ....upsetting.

Next week we'll have some else. Another Jihad. Another fatwa.....whatever. Maybe Hamas will start something again? Maybe Bush will fart east or look to be farting east. Whatever....doesn't really matter we'll be off to the races again

[White Doors]

And in other news... Muslims world-wide are ****ed!

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Really? I thought the point was to prevent the spread of the disease? I don't agree with some in the Catholic church not advancing the use of condoms, but the multiple partner issue in Africa is a much different animal than in the western world.

Sure. So what? The pope says not to use condoms and if people follow that AIDS will spread more. What am I missing here?

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Sure. So what? The pope says not to use condoms and if people follow that AIDS will spread more. What am I missing here?

The part about not having multiple partners.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by White Doors

The part about not having multiple partners.

OK but let's say there is a couple.

Scenario A:
The husband has multiple partners and does not use a condom
The wife does not
The husband infect his wife

Scenario B:
The husband has multiple partners and does use a condom
The wife is not
The husband does not infect his wife

Under scenario A the innocent party is infected because the husband follows the Pope's direction not to use a condom

Under scenario B the innocent part is not infected.

[White Doors]

Of course, but those are not all of the possible scenarios, of which, you must agree.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Of course, but those are not all of the possible scenarios, of which, you must agree.

Sure but so what? What is yoru point?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by White Doors

We're in Afghanistan at the government's request, at the UN's request and at Nato's request. The government of Afghanistan has been democratically elected...

So who is it that's 'killing them left and right' and who is asking us to?

Ah... by 'us', I'm referring to the West, not Canada. I sort of believe that Western Europe/Canada/US have pretty similar foreign policies in the region and in general.

As for the rest, its unrelated nonsense. I'm saying that people who believe Islam isn't being 'dealt with' are clearly ignoring the fact that 'we' (ie, the West) are all over them, all the time. As for UN/NATO's requests... who cares? That has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

[RedHot25]

Pope says 'sorry' (?) - http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/nation...e.html?ref=rss

[Dirty Mr. Clean]

The Pope was saying that Culture can use Religion and promote it through violence. He was using an example from the past. He was talking about how Religion doesn't teach violence the culture does. People need to pay more attention to context.