Pope accused of anti-Islamic remarks

[SpitFire40]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

The head of the Muslim Brotherhood said the Pope's remarks "aroused the anger of the whole Islamic world"

Like thats hard to do....

Genius

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Well we should try to keep it within the last 500 years maybe?

OK how about not allowing his people to use condoms in Africa...thereby sentencing to death his very own followers?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Cheese

OK how about not allowing his people to use condoms in Africa...thereby sentencing to death his very own followers?

I'm not going to get into a religious debate, but these same "followers" aren't supposed to have sex before marriage in the firstplace, thereby contacting the AIDS virus in the firstplace. And I did read somewhere that the church is considering allowing condoms.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by fleury

I'm not going to get into a religious debate, but these same "followers" aren't supposed to have sex before marriage in the firstplace, thereby contacting the AIDS virus in the firstplace. And I did read somewhere that the church is considering allowing condoms.

What about the women in Africa who's husbands cheat on them (sans rubbers) and then get infected...not really their fault is it? They aren't having pre-marital sex but the fact that condoms aren't being used still results in them getting AIDS.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What about the women in Africa who's husbands cheat on them (sans rubbers) and then get infected...not really their fault is it? They aren't having pre-marital sex but the fact that condoms aren't being used still results in them getting AIDS.

True, but the husbands are the azzholes for doing that, and eventually, it would be a numbers game where she would probably contact it too even w/ condoms. That issue isn't really the Pope's fault, it's the husbands fault for being a jizzhead.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by fleury

True, but the husbands are the azzholes for doing that, and eventually, it would be a numbers game where she would probably contact it too even w/ condoms. That issue isn't really the Pope's fault, it's the husbands fault for being a jizzhead.

In our culture you mean...


You ever been to Africa?

[octothorp]

After reading through the entire lecture, I have to say it's pretty interesting and thoughtful, but that one passage really stands out as an unnecessary potshot and didn't really add anything to his overall message about religion and reason. It still seems hypocritical for him to talk about the catholic church as being rooted in logic when its actions clearly aren't, and he glosses over the violence of the church as well as the persecution of those who tried to work within the realms of logic and science.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by fleury

True, but the husbands are the azzholes for doing that, and eventually, it would be a numbers game where she would probably contact it too even w/ condoms. That issue isn't really the Pope's fault, it's the husbands fault for being a jizzhead.

Sure but if they were jizzhead's using condoms (in defiance of the pope) their wives would at least not contract AIDS. That is the point.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by fleury

True, but the husbands are the azzholes for doing that, and eventually, it would be a numbers game where she would probably contact it too even w/ condoms. That issue isn't really the Pope's fault, it's the husbands fault for being a jizzhead.

It's gotten past the blame game. Lots of people are dying and the Pope isn't helping. Use a condom.

[Calgaryborn]

I find it ironic that you guys place all the blame on the husbands. The fact is that husbands and wives both engage in clandestine sexual encounters. It is a cultural phenomenon that puts them at risk. The Roman Catholic church is trying to proselytize these people into the Catholic faith. Part of that faith calls for monogamous relationships and the avoidance of birth control. If these potential converts follow their new found faith they will be perfectly safe.

I seriously doubt that many African women would have the power to impose the use of condoms on their husbands. They might be able to influence their other sexual partners to use them, though.

[Flames0910]

And what does the Pope know exactly about Islam. If he doesn't know exactly what the religion preaches then he shouldn't start quoting other people

I would expect that he knows a lot about all of the major religions. Its not like he's some random dude with a cool hat...he's devoted his life to studying religion. While he may be Catholic, that doesn't exclude him from studying other religions as well.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I find it ironic that you guys place all the blame on the husbands. The fact is that husbands and wives both engage in clandestine sexual encounters. It is a cultural phenomenon that puts them at risk. The Roman Catholic church is trying to proselytize these people into the Catholic faith. Part of that faith calls for monogamous relationships and the avoidance of birth control. If these potential converts follow their new found faith they will be perfectly safe.

I seriously doubt that many African women would have the power to impose the use of condoms on their husbands. They might be able to influence their other sexual partners to use them, though.

To some, monogamous relationships — particularly in the context of marriage — are the natural state of human beings and the foundation of civilization. Others, however, find the idea of a single mate to be boring and oppressive, prefering instead to seek multiple partners and varied experiences. Which perspective is most accurate — are people naturally monogamous or polygamous?

Who is the Catholic Church to suggest we need to be one way or the other? Do you suppose the Catholic Missionairies who travel and talk about Jesus to the African Tribes give all the religious options? Do you suppose the tribes are educated enough to be able to figure out nonsense from reality?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I find it ironic that you guys place all the blame on the husbands. The fact is that husbands and wives both engage in clandestine sexual encounters. It is a cultural phenomenon that puts them at risk. The Roman Catholic church is trying to proselytize these people into the Catholic faith. Part of that faith calls for monogamous relationships and the avoidance of birth control. If these potential converts follow their new found faith they will be perfectly safe.

I seriously doubt that many African women would have the power to impose the use of condoms on their husbands. They might be able to influence their other sexual partners to use them, though.

Idealistic rubbish.

Have you ever had sex with someone who isn't your wife? Have you ever wrapped up? Ever used birth control?

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Hmm... did I suggest that? At all? Anywhere?

I'm laughing at the fact that some people think the West 'goes too easy' on Islamists. We're out there invading their region and killing them left and right... the West is paying Islamist extremists plenty of attention.

Are you suggesting they're not?

We're in Afghanistan at the government's request, at the UN's request and at Nato's request. The government of Afghanistan has been democratically elected...

So who is it that's 'killing them left and right' and who is asking us to?

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Cheese

OK how about not allowing his people to use condoms in Africa...thereby sentencing to death his very own followers?

In the same sentence they preach abstinence and/or monogomy. Which way is more effective at reducing the spread of AIDS Cheese?

c'mon - you know the answer!

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Sure but if they were jizzhead's using condoms (in defiance of the pope) their wives would at least not contract AIDS. That is the point.

Really? I thought the point was to prevent the spread of the disease? I don't agree with some in the Catholic church not advancing the use of condoms, but the multiple partner issue in Africa is a much different animal than in the western world.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I find it ironic that you guys place all the blame on the husbands. The fact is that husbands and wives both engage in clandestine sexual encounters. It is a cultural phenomenon that puts them at risk. The Roman Catholic church is trying to proselytize these people into the Catholic faith. Part of that faith calls for monogamous relationships and the avoidance of birth control. If these potential converts follow their new found faith they will be perfectly safe.

I seriously doubt that many African women would have the power to impose the use of condoms on their husbands. They might be able to influence their other sexual partners to use them, though.

Not sure about that. If my wife said, "go and do it, don't tell me about it, but make sure you use a condom" I would at LEAST use a condom if I did it.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Really? I thought the point was to prevent the spread of the disease? I don't agree with some in the Catholic church not advancing the use of condoms, but the multiple partner issue in Africa is a much different animal than in the western world.

Perhaps "Catholicism" isnt the answer for these poor people then?
Maybe education would be a better start?

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by TanguayFan

I would expect that he knows a lot about all of the major religions. Its not like he's some random dude with a cool hat...he's devoted his life to studying religion. While he may be Catholic, that doesn't exclude him from studying other religions as well.

Well said

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Cheese

To some, monogamous relationships — particularly in the context of marriage — are the natural state of human beings and the foundation of civilization. Others, however, find the idea of a single mate to be boring and oppressive, prefering instead to seek multiple partners and varied experiences. Which perspective is most accurate — are people naturally monogamous or polygamous?

Who is the Catholic Church to suggest we need to be one way or the other? Do you suppose the Catholic Missionairies who travel and talk about Jesus to the African Tribes give all the religious options? Do you suppose the tribes are educated enough to be able to figure out nonsense from reality?

Interesting question, but certain certain species definately prefer one way or the other. See some birds and others. Where do we fall? I'm thinking human females like to 'nest' due to a 'mothering instinct' and human males have an instinct to 'spread the seed'. Are we more than our instincts? I'd like to think so.

What about you?