[PGT] Flames win in regulation! 4-2 over the Sharks

[home_sweet_dome]

Originally Posted by getbak

On the other hand, there are many plays where it's blown dead and the replay shows it wasn't actually offside. You don't get to challenge that and get a do-over on the play.

There are many plays that should have been blown dead, aren't, and the team doesn't score, so it's not reviewed and no time is added to the clock.

Maybe there was a missed offside early in a period that allowed a team to have possession in the zone for an extra 30 seconds, but because a goal wasn't scored, that 30 seconds doesn't get added back to the clock, so then late in that same period the other team scores 2 seconds after time expired. If we allow teams to challenge a missed offside 30 seconds before a goal, why can't the team that scored late challenge a missed offside that happened 15 minutes earlier?


It's a fast-paced game. Sometimes, the linesmen miss offsides. Sometimes, the linesmen blow a play dead when they shouldn't have.

Goals should only be disallowed if there was a missed infraction that led directly to the goal being scored. The only thing a missed offside does is allow the play to continue. The players still have to put the puck in the net. There are a lot of things that have to happen from the time the puck enters the zone until it enters the net. None of those things are the result of a player lifting his skate a fraction of a second too early.


I've been complaining about this since it was announced. I will keep complaining about it until the standards by which an offside can be challenged are changed. If the Flames had benefitted by a challenged offside, I would be glad that they benefitted, but I would still think it's absolutely idiotic to allow it to be challenged in the first place.

Agreed 100%. Maybe they need to tweak the rule that it can only be challenged if a goal was scored 10 seconds after the offside (or some small amount of time). Anything beyond that and really the offside wasn't the reason the goal was scored.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

Agreed 100%. Maybe they need to tweak the rule that it can only be challenged if a goal was scored 10 seconds after the offside (or some small amount of time). Anything beyond that and really the offside wasn't the reason the goal was scored.

except it was the reason because the play wouldnt have happened had it been blown down?

[1991 Canadian]

Originally Posted by getbak

I have to repeat what I've been saying for months: Allowing a Coach's Challenge on offsides is one of the most idiotic decisions the NHL has ever made.

Offsides are such a minor part of the game. They happen 65 feet away from the goal and they have no direct impact on the goal being scored. There are so many other plays where a goal is scored directly because a defending player was interfered with, tripped, or slashed prior to a goal and the infraction doesn't get called. Those plays have an absolute direct impact on the scoring play, yet they're not reviewable.

A missed close offside doesn't really give the scoring team any significant advantage. Once the puck enters the zone and isn't blown dead, everyone on the ice is on a level playing field, so let them play the game.

I agree, but there are cases where a player being offside directly contributes to a goal. Take a long stretch pass where the forward is offside. Them being offside might give them an extra half step on a defender which results in a goal.

I heard it suggested somewhere that there should be an expiry limit for being able to call back a goal due to the play being offside. 10 seconds? 15 seconds?

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by getbak

I have to repeat what I've been saying for months: Allowing a Coach's Challenge on offsides is one of the most idiotic decisions the NHL has ever made.

Offsides are such a minor part of the game. They happen 65 feet away from the goal and they have no direct impact on the goal being scored. There are so many other plays where a goal is scored directly because a defending player was interfered with, tripped, or slashed prior to a goal and the infraction doesn't get called. Those plays have an absolute direct impact on the scoring play, yet they're not reviewable.

How can you say that? Of course they affect the play. A missed offside call that results in a goal directly affects the play. Gaudreau's goal would have counted. And while we as Flames fans might find it a beautiful sequence, the fact is it should NOT have counted and the right call was made. You're essentially saying your fine with missed offsides resulting in goals because it annoys you the flow of the game is disrupted. Sorry, but that's not a good thing. I very much doubt you'd have such passion on the topic if it was the Sharks who had the missed offside call and the goal was against us.

The annoying thing about coach's challenge on offsides is how long it takes. That's the only downfall. Imagine if it was robots and laser sensors that detected how offside we're called. Gaudreau's goal wouldn't have counted, and that's the correct call.

Any change in rules that allows for the correct calls to be made, is a good thing. Are their some tweeks that need to be made? Absolutely. I'd like to see delay of game called if the challenge is overruled.

[Weitz]

Would this even be a discussion if it was SJ who scored and Bob challenged and had it overturned?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Would this even be a discussion if it was SJ who scored and Bob challenged and had it overturned?

I've been very vocal about my dislike for the coaches challenge this season, so probably. I think the league needed an option for expanded review, but they did it all wrong.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Would this even be a discussion if it was SJ who scored and Bob challenged and had it overturned?

Yeah, I hate coaches challenges regardless. They're silly and slow the game down. Mistakes happen, deal with it.

Obviously it's a bigger issue here because it was a Flames goal that was overturned (duh) but they're still stupid.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

How can you say that? Of course they affect the play. A missed offside call that results in a goal directly affects the play. Gaudreau's goal would have counted. And while we as Flames fans might find it a beautiful sequence, the fact is it should NOT have counted and the right call was made. You're essentially saying your fine with missed offsides resulting in goals because it annoys you the flow of the game is disrupted. Sorry, but that's not a good thing. I very much doubt you'd have such passion on the topic if it was the Sharks who had the missed offside call and the goal was against us.

The annoying thing about coach's challenge on offsides is how long it takes. That's the only downfall. Imagine if it was robots and laser sensors that detected how offside we're called. Gaudreau's goal wouldn't have counted, and that's the correct call.

Any change in rules that allows for the correct calls to be made, is a good thing.

By that sentiment then you and others who agree here hope that eventually every play, call, non-call and etc. is eventually reviewable so that "the right call" can be made?

I'm sorry, but at the end of the day "missed calls" are a part of the game and always will be you have to weigh the benefits to the flow of the game as well.

These arguments of "directly" and "indirectly" affecting the game are like multiverse arguments, e.g. this undetected boarding call would not have caused the goal that happened 5 minutes later because the goal scorer would have been in the sin bin for a major, so that should be reviewable and retracted?

Really, it's all ridiculous IMO.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Yeah, I hate coaches challenges regardless. They're silly and slow the game down. Mistakes happen, deal with it.

Obviously it's a bigger issue here because it was a Flames goal that was overturned (duh) but they're still stupid.

Maybe an extreme example, but one day a team is going to rightfully make the playoffs/win the cup because a coach's challenge will have proven to be right. Disrupting the flow of the game should have zero bearing when it comes to getting the correct call made.

[MrMastodonFarm]

And despite that extreme example I still hate the coaches challenge.

And that was a Flames play, Weitz!

[FireGilbert]

Yay a regulation win!

I didn't like the coaches challenge from the beginning and the challenging of offisde really bugs me. You now have a game where the linesman can eliminate a scoring chance by mistakenly calling a play offside yet you are calling back goals if the same linesman mistakenly calls a play onside. It would be a better rule to not call offside on the ice at all, just review ever goal to see if it was.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

By that sentiment then you and others who agree here hope that eventually every play, call, non-call and etc. is eventually reviewable so that "the right call" can be made?

I'm sorry, but at the end of the day "missed calls" are a part of the game and always will be you have to weigh the benefits to the flow of the game as well.

Minor penalties are often open to interpretation from the officials. For things like that, I agree that no coach's challenge should be available. It's up to the ref to decide.

But offside is something set in stone. You are either over the line, or you aren't. It's a black and white rule. While the ref is the one who blows the whistle, it's something that can be decided via slow motion review whether the correct call is made or not. If robots and sensors were making those calls, it would be 100% correct. Offsides are something that shouldn't be missed. I'm of the opinion that the coach's challenge is acceptable in this case.

[stone hands]

We dont have the technology to go back in time and reverse bad calls. We do have the technology to make sure that the right call is made on the ice. I dont know what you guys want, other than a time machine

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Minor penalties are often open to interpretation from the officials. For things like that, I agree that no coach's challenge should be available. It's up to the ref to decide.

But offside is something set in stone. You are either over the line, or you aren't. It's a black and white rule. While the ref is the one who blows the whistle, it's something that can be decided via slow motion review whether the correct call is made or not. If robots and sensors were making those calls, it would be 100% correct. Offsides are something that shouldn't be missed. I'm of the opinion that the coach's challenge is acceptable in this case.

I can tell the way we are talking about this that we'll have to agree to disagree.

I know what you're saying, believe me.

I just feel differently because IMO rules are black/white/grey all the time, these rules are always called differently for EVERY penalty by referee, by time of the year, time of the game, regular season/post season etc. etc.

IMO every rule is an interpretation and a judgment call aka grey.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

I can tell the way we are talking about this that we'll have to agree to disagree.

I know what you're saying, believe me.

I just feel differently because IMO rules are black/white/grey all the time, these rules are always called differently for EVERY penalty by referee, by time of the year, time of the game, regular season/post season etc. etc.

IMO every rule is an interpretation and a judgment call aka grey.

It's a good topic to debate and I'm sure as the season goes along, we'll all get to see the ups and downs of the rule. I can understand your point about not liking the flow of the game being disrupted, and I don't like it either. On the other hand, I like the correct call being made. Certainly a topic where we can agree to disagree

It's not perfect, and Hartley is one of those coaches who appears to be abusing it (challenging for no reason other then a ''hail mary'' it might get overturned, using it as an extended time out). But hopefully as seasons go on, we'll see the challenge refined to the point where everyone is on board with how it works and we have the system down perfectly.

[psyang]

Originally Posted by RockOnRoberts

Does anyone know what would happen in the following scenario:

Team A enters the offensive zone offsides, but no call is made and play goes on. Team B takes away the puck and goes down the ice and scores before any stoppages occur.

Could Team A challenge the goal based on the fact that there should have been a stoppage when they entered the zone offsides?

I believe an offside challenge can only be made if the puck remains in the attacking zone. In your scenario, once team B clears the puck from their zone, the offside can't be challenged.

[Fan in Exile]

The debate isn't just over the fact it was a Flames goal or that there are reviews. The issue is that while it is true that the Flames gained the zone when someone is offside, play continued for 14 seconds, there were multiple opportunities for the Sharks to clear the zone but Johnny Hockey deked two guys out of his pants and fed someone who was at centre ice at the time they entered the zone fourteen seconds earlier for a tap-in goal. The causation from the offside entry for the goal was remote. It's not just because it was a nice goal or a Flames goal. A guy could score a beauty goal on a breakaway where he was offside when he got a breakaway pass and I would have no issue with taking away the goal on a coach's challenge.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I very much doubt you'd have such passion on the topic if it was the Sharks who had the missed offside call and the goal was against us.

You can check my posting history on this if you want. I have been vocal in my opposition to the Coach's Challenge for offsides since it was announced.

I posted about the ridiculous 10 minute review in the Jets-Caps game on Saturday. Even though I would have preferred to see the Jets lose, it would have been an absolute travesty if that goal had been disallowed.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

I can tell the way we are talking about this that we'll have to agree to disagree.

I know what you're saying, believe me.

I just feel differently because IMO rules are black/white/grey all the time, these rules are always called differently for EVERY penalty by referee, by time of the year, time of the game, regular season/post season etc. etc.

IMO every rule is an interpretation and a judgment call aka grey.

Have to say, this is completely untrue. It's not an opinion, there are, in fact, rules that are black and white. Many of them.

If the player crosses the blue-line before the puck, it's offside. Full stop. If it's missed, it's a missed call, not the linesman using their discretion to determine it wasn't offside. it was, that is all.

If the puck crosses the goal line, bearing no other penalties or instances, it's a goal. Full stop. The only way this is up to interpretation is if the ref "intends" to blow the whistle, which I think we can all agree is BS.

If a player shoots the puck out of the playing surface in their own zone, without it deflecting off of anything, they get a penalty. Doesn't matter if they meant to or not.

If a team plays the puck with more than the allowed amount of players on the ice, it's too many men.

There's a reason people lose their s*** when this stuff goes awry. If a ref doesn't call these things, they are missed/blown calls. Not the ref using their discretion. There's a significant difference between those things.

[FBI]

Coaches challenge for offsides is TERRIBLE! Terrible terrible terrible!!
Taking back goals for a play that happened 45 seconds ago that the linesman get right 99% of the time? Give me a fricken break.
The league wants MORE goals not less.

They have to change this and I'm sure they will. Ovechkin getting his highest Russian goal called back twice is soooo lame.

As you can tell I can't stand this and no doubt they will change it within a few years for sure.