Sorry Quebec; Panthers get $86 million bailout from Broward County

[Resolute 14]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/br...208-story.html

Under what's proposed, of the $86 million, the Panthers organization would have to spend $1.5 million drawing a "high impact event,'' $39 million on capital improvements at BB&T Center, and $45.5 million on operating costs like the electricity bill. None of the money would go toward the hockey team side of the business.

County Auditor Evan Lukic said an irrevocable letter of credit was a significant improvement to this deal over previous requests. He was critical of the Panthers' last public request but called this one "plausible.'' The letter would ensure the county gets its money if the team files bankruptcy or moves away, he said.

Also, if over a seven-year period, the team racked up $100 million in losses, it would be eligible to leave starting in Year 9, after paying a termination fee. That fee starts at $72 million and decreases each year.

[Looch City]

Money well spent.

[codynw]

[dissentowner]

Not sure what that has to do with Quebec, they will get an expansion team anyhow.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Not sure what that has to do with Quebec, they will get an expansion team anyhow.

That is growing less likely with every passing day, actually.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I'm very pleased by this news. This is not as much about the success of the Panthers, but rather simply operating the BB&T Center. The county figured it was good to keep it running as it brings more than just Panthers hockey, but many big acts throughout the year to a place that isn't in downtown Miami.

Heck, the wife and I are going to see Amy Schumer there this Saturday.

It allows the Panthers to be accountable for how they run the team, and not a whole lot else in terms of maintaining the building etc. With the Panthers trending up, it bodes well for the long term success of the team in South Florida.

Cue everyone saying how stupid it is to have a team here and how they don't belong in Florida in the first place.

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2011...-on-the-south/

The hockey-playing population in the entire Southeast region in 1990-91 was around 6,000, with around 1,200 in Florida. Today, there are more than 10,800 hockey players in the state of Florida alone. From 1991 to 2009, Florida’s hockey-playing population has grown by 804.7%

If you're interested in growing the game, it's a good thing that there are still teams in the sunbelt. Look at what's happened in L.A. and San Jose. Very, very strong hockey markets now that are also producing players. Florida is just beginning to produce players (as they would have been born around the time that hockey was introduced to Florida initially), but excellent young players like Shayne Gostisbehere come from here. My neighbor's kids even played with him growing up.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That is growing less likely with every passing day, actually.

Why?

[CroFlames]

Cali, you make it sound like 10,000 hockey players in a state with 14MM people is a good thing.

The costs associated out weigh the benefits. Move that team to Canada or Seattle or LV or basically anywhere.

[troutman]

Duhatschek: Quebec City’s NHL dream most viable with franchise relocation

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle27653820/

And however well the Quebec City franchise does at the box office, in merchandise sales and local television revenue, the market could not spin off enough cash to make a $680-million (Canadian) buy-in work. That is the NHL’s concern, even though Quebecor, the prospective buyer, has deep pockets.

So, while Bettman always discourages the relocation of teams, it would make far more sense for Quebec City to pursue an ailing franchise whose owners are weary of mounting losses. At that point, the cost of the transaction becomes a different financial equation – simply a business deal between an eager buyer and a motivated seller, with the price to be mutually negotiated.

League governors understand that putting a franchise back in Quebec City probably makes sense – it has a state-of-the-art arena in place and a well-heeled ownership group. But they also want to protect that group from itself and make sure it has a fighting chance to succeed – on the ice and on the balance sheet. The league does not want to admit a 31st or 32nd team, pocket the expansion fees and then be forced to underwrite the new teams’ losses the way it does now with some of its struggling franchises.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by troutman

Duhatschek: Quebec City’s NHL dream most viable with franchise relocation

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle27653820/

It is probably the best scenario and even though the Panthers were the most precarious of the teams in recent years, there are other teams that could relocate to Quebec potentially.

The bottom line is that if they are worth more in Quebec than somewhere else, then someone will try to relocate them there.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The bottom line is that if they are worth more in Quebec than somewhere else, then someone will try to relocate them there.

Unfortunately, the bottom line for the league is that they want that $500 million expansion fee from anybody who wants a team in their market, so they are fighting tooth and nail to prevent any franchise from relocating.

[sureLoss]

It is starting to look more like the Canes will be the team that will relocate.

Owner is bleeding money and been trying to sell the team for a long time.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Unfortunately, the bottom line for the league is that they want that $500 million expansion fee from anybody who wants a team in their market, so they are fighting tooth and nail to prevent any franchise from relocating.

Not really, no. The league wants $500 million from Las Vegas and Seattle too. The league isn't fighting to prevent relocation to Quebec in favour of expansion - if that were the case, there wouldn't be rumblings about the league stalling to try and get Seattle in the expansion picture at the expense of Quebec.

The league is going to fight tooth and nail to prevent *any* team from relocating. They succeeded (for now) with Phoenix and failed with Atlanta. But as long as someone is willing to own and operate a team in places like Florida and Carolina, the league will always support those cities. But Quebec will be held in reserve in case one of those markets finds itself with nobody willing to operate a team.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Cali, you make it sound like 10,000 hockey players in a state with 14MM people is a good thing.

The costs associated out weigh the benefits. Move that team to Canada or Seattle or LV or basically anywhere.

The growth rate is substantial, you cannot deny that. You can't turn places like Florida into hockey meccas overnight, nor will they ever be the place that is though of as a hockey first area, but having any sort of youth hockey program build here is really good for the game. The youth hockey in So Cal now is a direct result of Gretzky's impact on the area. That took more than 20 years to establish.

Canada, the northeast U.S., and the Minnesota area will always be the hotbeds for hockey, but it's good to have other smaller areas contribute to that culture.

The double failure of Atlanta, and the financial losses of the Panthers and Coyotes aside, there are success stories in Tampa and Nashville, as well as the previously mentioned California success stories.

Don't forget that the California Golden Seals and Colorado Rockies were both failed franchises long ago, and yet the NHL went back there and found success. It helps when the team wins, which has been the major stumbling block for the Panthers. Everyone around here still talks about the team that went to the finals 20 years ago. The only other positive memory people have of the team was Bure's tenure.

The team is just starting to build into a strong perennial contender, and it would be a real shame if they were to move right when they were getting to a point where fans were starting to show up. People are starting to ask for tickets, whereas last year I couldn't give them away.

Florida is averaging 12961 fans per game this year. Not exceptional, but it's still up about 1500 fans per game over last year, which is about 76.1% capacity. Nobody is talking about moving New Jersey, but they're operating at 78.9% capacity for 13905 per game. Carolina is down to 10759, which is around 57.6% capacity. Haven't heard a peep about moving that team. The Islanders were terrible for just as long as the Panthers, and they only moved the team recently because Nassau Coliseum was not going to be brought into the 21st century.

Basically, there is a weird stigma about a team in South Florida. People feel like it just shouldn't exist, but outside of poor financials due to poor performance for 20 years, there's nothing that makes the Panthers much different from any other non-traditional hockey market.

[CroFlames]

Reasonable arguments. But still. BOO on you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Not really, no. The league wants $500 million from Las Vegas and Seattle too. The league isn't fighting to prevent relocation to Quebec in favour of expansion - if that were the case, there wouldn't be rumblings about the league stalling to try and get Seattle in the expansion picture at the expense of Quebec.

The league is going to fight tooth and nail to prevent *any* team from relocating. They succeeded (for now) with Phoenix and failed with Atlanta. But as long as someone is willing to own and operate a team in places like Florida and Carolina, the league will always support those cities. But Quebec will be held in reserve in case one of those markets finds itself with nobody willing to operate a team.

It's also in the league's best interest to have a Quebec willing and ready to go immediately. It keeps the threat of relocation real, so there is some leverage on the fans. And it is also insurance against having a homeless franchise if a team gets pushed out. For that reason, I don't think that they are going to make relocation easy, but in the end, if it makes business sense, I think it will happen eventually.

Whether or not it makes business sense isn't something I can comment on, but on a personal level, I would love to see them get a team.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

The growth rate is substantial, you cannot deny that. You can't turn places like Florida into hockey meccas overnight, nor will they ever be the place that is though of as a hockey first area, but having any sort of youth hockey program build here is really good for the game. The youth hockey in So Cal now is a direct result of Gretzky's impact on the area. That took more than 20 years to establish.

Canada, the northeast U.S., and the Minnesota area will always be the hotbeds for hockey, but it's good to have other smaller areas contribute to that culture.

The double failure of Atlanta, and the financial losses of the Panthers and Coyotes aside, there are success stories in Tampa and Nashville, as well as the previously mentioned California success stories.

Don't forget that the California Golden Seals and Colorado Rockies were both failed franchises long ago, and yet the NHL went back there and found success. It helps when the team wins, which has been the major stumbling block for the Panthers. Everyone around here still talks about the team that went to the finals 20 years ago. The only other positive memory people have of the team was Bure's tenure.

The team is just starting to build into a strong perennial contender, and it would be a real shame if they were to move right when they were getting to a point where fans were starting to show up. People are starting to ask for tickets, whereas last year I couldn't give them away.

Florida is averaging 12961 fans per game this year. Not exceptional, but it's still up about 1500 fans per game over last year, which is about 76.1% capacity. Nobody is talking about moving New Jersey, but they're operating at 78.9% capacity for 13905 per game. Carolina is down to 10759, which is around 57.6% capacity. Haven't heard a peep about moving that team. The Islanders were terrible for just as long as the Panthers, and they only moved the team recently because Nassau Coliseum was not going to be brought into the 21st century.

Basically, there is a weird stigma about a team in South Florida. People feel like it just shouldn't exist, but outside of poor financials due to poor performance for 20 years, there's nothing that makes the Panthers much different from any other non-traditional hockey market.

Florida is a terrible professional sports market when it comes to actual attendance at the games pretty much around the horn. Probably because of the weather. I knew if I lived on the coast with nice weather all year round i'd be way less inclined to go to as many games lives as I do in Calgary. The only team that seems to manage to do well is the Dolphins. The Heat are still living off Lebron but are slowly returning to a half-empty arena.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Had to add this tidbit. Average road attendance for teams really evens out the numbers. Only the Rangers operate at 100% on the road.

Calgary has the 2nd lowest road draw attendance, averaging 16182 for around 91% capacity. Ottawa draws 16633, and Minnesota draws 16695. Florida is drawing 16843 for a slightly higher percentage. Nashville draws 16977.

Just goes to show that even traditional hockey market teams don't always draw the best. You need to have teams from a large population area with a long history to have fans always show up. Winning and having star players also tends to drive attendance.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Florida is a terrible professional sports market when it comes to actual attendance at the games pretty much around the horn. Probably because of the weather. I knew if I lived on the coast with nice weather all year round i'd be way less inclined to go to as many games lives as I do in Calgary. The only team that seems to manage to do well is the Dolphins. The Heat are still living off Lebron but are slowly returning to a half-empty arena.

I won't argue the idea that there are many activities to compete for leisure time, but it doesn't preclude a team from drawing well. There's just so few long standing franchises in the Florida area to build a culture of sports around. Other markets have had their teams for 60-70 years.


Look at the year these franchises were established:
Miami Dolphins: 1966
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 1976
Miami Heat: 1987
Orlando Magic: 1989
Tampa Bay Lightning: 1992
Florida/Miami Marlins: 1993
Florida Panthers: 1993
Jacksonville Jaguars: 1995
Tampa Bay Devil Rays: 1998

Cripes, most of those are barely 20 years old. People just aren't used to having sports teams in Florida. The history just isn't there to build a culture around. That's not even considering the extreme lack of success most of these franchises have had, which is what people tune in for in the first place.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's also in the league's best interest to have a Quebec willing and ready to go immediately. It keeps the threat of relocation real, so there is some leverage on the fans. And it is also insurance against having a homeless franchise if a team gets pushed out. For that reason, I don't think that they are going to make relocation easy, but in the end, if it makes business sense, I think it will happen eventually.

Whether or not it makes business sense isn't something I can comment on, but on a personal level, I would love to see them get a team.

Thats actually brilliant! They should have one team that plays in a different City every year. I would cheer for them.

Who are they this year? The Branson Beef!

Next year they're the New Orleans Trombonists!