Montador's family sues NHL. Claims fighting leads to depression & addiciton - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Erick Estrada · 12-08-2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I have a fear that social justice warriors and lawsuits will eventually tank great sports like boxing and MMA.

Both sports are doing a find job of tanking themselves atm.

powderjunkie · 12-08-2015, 12:36 PM

FWIW Montador fought three times in his season with the Blackhawks (http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/496, quite a bit lower than his average.

Geeoff · 12-08-2015, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Both sports are doing a find job of tanking themselves atm.

My point is, if the NHL can be sued for allowing players to fight, then sports that are 100% fighting are screwed.

codynw · 12-08-2015, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geeoff

My point is, if the NHL can be sued for allowing players to fight, then sports that are 100% fighting are screwed.

The difference is, it's quite easy to make a case that fighting doesn't need to be a part of hockey. Fighting needs to be a part of boxing/MMA because that's all it is.

Coach · 12-08-2015, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geeoff

My point is, if the NHL can be sued for allowing players to fight, then sports that are 100% fighting are screwed.

Ok, I've had this argument before, so I don't want to get to bogged down in it, but for all intents and purposes fighting is not allowed in the NHL. It's penalized and is clearly against the rules according to the official rule book.

How stiff the penalties are for the purpose of deterring it are is a different question really.

For your analogy, the fighters expect to fight. It's what the sport is and it's what they train for. Fighting is technically not allowed in hockey so the argument for Montador is A) If it's not allowed, why is it glorified as part of the sport's entertainment factor by the league/media? B) If it's not allowed, why are certain players asked to specifically do that to the point that they train themselves as fighters moreso than hockey players? And furthermore, C) Why does a professional sports league champion what is essentially bare-knuckle boxing, something that is illegal pretty much anywhere?

If a player just looked at the rules and went to play, with no knowledge of the traditional aspect of the game, they should have no reason to think they would be engaged in a fight while playing. Soccer players don't go out expecting to have their ankles broken by a cheap tackle. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but they are in no way consenting to it by entering onto the field, only that injuries may occur. But what if UEFA or FIFA not only did very little to curb the practice, but advertised it as an exciting part of the game? "Look! You can see Messi's foot face the wrong direction!"

Not a perfect metaphor, but honestly, there arent a lot of comparables across other sports. Hockey is the only one that lets a pretty serious rule just kind of permeate throughout their sport for the sake of tradition.

Flash Walken · 12-08-2015, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's absolutely nothing tough about sucker punching someone in the face as per that video. That's the kind of stuff that needs to go in the game.

In an unfortunate bit of Karma, Franzen is on LTIR due to persistent concussion symptoms.

flamesfan1297 · 12-08-2015, 01:03 PM

In that video, Yes, what Franzen did was cheap, and that is the type of stuff that needs to be taken out of the game. But, at the same time, Montador isn't exactly innocent either in that play. He gives Franzen a shot to the back of the head/neck area, holds him in the corner, where he is giving Franzen shots, and then continues to hold him all the way to the front of the net. Not saying what Franzen did was right, but Montador wasn't right either.

CalgaryFan1988 · 12-08-2015, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not sure about that, since the quote mentions practices, and also "thousands" of traumas. That can't be just about fighting.

I'm not saying that all of his "traumas" are from fighting. I'm saying that the Montador family isn't trying to remove hitting from the game like some posters are suggesting.

They are stating that, proper return to work guidelines weren't followed after him being concussed and Fighting and more specifically "staged fighting" should not be in the game.

GioforPM · 12-08-2015, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I'm not saying that all of his "traumas" are from fighting. I'm saying that the Montador family isn't trying to remove hitting from the game like some posters are suggesting.

They are stating that, proper return to work guidelines weren't followed after him being concussed and Fighting and more specifically "staged fighting" should not be in the game.

Technically, all they can really do is get money. But their argument is not just about staged fighting. As you have said, it's more about the whole concussion protocol. The fighting aspect is, IMO, an unnecessary distraction from the bigger issue.

TheAlpineOracle · 12-08-2015, 01:10 PM

Every time a professional hockey player steps on the ice, they know the risks. If they weren't OK with those risks they shouldn't have bothered stepping on that ice and cashing those paychecks. These law suits are becoming an absolute joke. Steve Montador knew the risks and willingly accepted them. I have some sympathy for the guys in the 70s and 80s, but not for a guy from Montador's generation.

CalgaryFan1988 · 12-08-2015, 01:12 PM

nm, misread

codynw · 12-08-2015, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Every time a professional hockey player steps on the ice, they know the risks. If they weren't OK with those risks they shouldn't have bothered stepping on that ice and cashing those paychecks. These law suits are becoming an absolute joke. Steve Montador knew the risks and willingly accepted them.

Did anyone really fully understand what the risks were when Montador started playing?

flamesfan1297 · 12-08-2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Every time a professional hockey player steps on the ice, they know the risks. If they weren't OK with those risks they shouldn't have bothered stepping on that ice and cashing those paychecks. These law suits are becoming an absolute joke. Steve Montador knew the risks and willingly accepted them. I have some sympathy for the guys in the 70s and 80s, but not for a guy from Montador's generation.

Agreed! These lawsuits are becoming a joke

TheAlpineOracle · 12-08-2015, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

Did anyone really fully understand what the risks were when Montador started playing?

Montador became an NHL regular in 2004. The science wasn't what it is now, but people were starting to become aware, and there's also the common sense factor. Pretty easy for people to deduct that repeatedly getting hit in the head isn't a good thing. They were starting to make a big deal about concussions back in the late 90's when I was playing high school football.

Does anyone actually believe that Montador would have quit playing hockey even if he was 100% aware of the risks that we are today? Not a chance.

Jordan! · 12-08-2015, 01:24 PM

It's the game and it is part of it.. Feel bad for guys like this but come on.

saillias · 12-08-2015, 01:37 PM

You realize he's dead, right? From CTE issues. Caused by repeated brain trauma. Great you feel bad, right. That solves everything. Problem solved. Bouw N Arrow willing to acknowledge it's bad that he's dead.

Jordan! · 12-08-2015, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saillias

You realize he's dead, right? From CTE issues. Caused by repeated brain trauma. Great you feel bad, right. That solves everything. Problem solved. Bouw N Arrow willing to acknowledge it's bad that he's dead.

I sure do and as one of my favorite players in the 2004 Flames run I was very sad to hear that news.

But these lawsuits are completely ridiculous!!

GioforPM · 12-08-2015, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Every time a person walks across the street , they know the risks. If they weren't OK with those risks they shouldn't have bothered stepping on that street and getting to the other side. These law suits are becoming an absolute joke.

That argument works for any activity. The thing is, it isn't really that black and white. If the league could have taken steps to make it better, if they had more knowledge than a high school educated hockey player, if he was encouraged or pressured to play despite warning signs, yeah, there's liability.

If he knew risks and took chances is he partially negligent as well? Sure, just like if I don't look for someone running a red light.

TheAlpineOracle · 12-08-2015, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saillias

You realize he's dead, right? From CTE issues. Caused by repeated brain trauma. Great you feel bad, right. That solves everything. Problem solved. Bouw N Arrow willing to acknowledge it's bad that he's dead.

He died from CTE issues which were the direct result of his own actions. Sucks that he died, but to blame the NHL for that is pretty ridiculous to me. No one stood behind Montador with a gun and told him to play in the NHL. He knew there was risk of getting seriously hurt, and he willingly accepted it.

TheAlpineOracle · 12-08-2015, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That argument works for any activity. The thing is, it isn't really that black and white. If the league could have taken steps to make it better, if they had more knowledge than a high school educated hockey player, if he was encouraged or pressured to play despite warning signs, yeah, there's liability.

If he knew risks and took chances is he partially negligent as well? Sure, just like if I don't look for someone running a red light.

The person running the red light was breaking the law, what exactly was the NHL doing that was illegal?