Chris Kuc @ChrisKuc
Steve Montador lawsuit details four instances when he was diagnosed with a concussion and played for #Blackhawks within next day or two.
Wow Blackhawks are atrocious if true. For the record Montador played for the Blackhawks in the 2011-2012 season when concussion protocol was well established.
Last edited by sureLoss; 12-08-2015 at 10:57 AM.
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The argument is that the NHL knew the long-term effects of the repeated head traumas, particularly those involving de facto "fighters" in the game, and withheld that information from players and failed to have an appropriate to the mounting evidence against them. Not that "hey I got hurt out here and I didn't think that would happen!"
What did they know? What data did they have that nobody else did? What did they withhold? Did they employ PHD brain guys that told them and nobody else what was happening?
Injury reports are publicly available, did anyone else report an increase in games missed due to head injuries?
The players union is equally, if not moreso responsible for this than the league. They've had three work stoppages in which this could have become an issue, let alone any other time. The union's role is to protect players. What have they done? What did they know and when did they know it?
Chris Kuc @ChrisKuc
Steve Montador lawsuit details four instances when he was diagnosed with a concussion and played for #Blackhawks within next day or two.
Wow Blackhawks are atrocious if true. For the record Montador played for the Blackhawks in the 2011-2012 season when concussion protocol was well established.
If that's the case he should be suing the Blackhawks not the NHL.
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Chris Kuc @ChrisKuc
Steve Montador lawsuit details four instances when he was diagnosed with a concussion and played for #Blackhawks within next day or two.
Wow Blackhawks are atrocious if true. For the record Montador played for the Blackhawks in the 2011-2012 season when concussion protocol was well established.
That has happened and will happen in all sports unless they have independent doctors monitoring with the power to remove players from playing.
The NHL has really left themselves open to lawsuits like this by continuing to allow fighting, and not having a more meaningful concussion protocol with all that is known today. It's pretty shameful that they are behind even the NFL in this area.
The argument, is NOT that he knew that fighting would have repercussions. The players do, but don't understand in totality those repercussions. That's not their skillset - not the trade they were hired for.
What the argument IS, is that the NHL knew the player were being concussed, and did not apply enough safeguards to protect the players.
Was the player able to differentiate between; being dazed, seeing stars, and the 3 grades of concussions.
Who is responsible for that? The professionals/doctors, or the player? Is it a split?
I feel the players have a good argument, that the league is at least partially responsible, as they supply the doctors.
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I have some issues with these lawsuits against the professional leagues from players. They have a union that is supposed to act on their behalf which made up of players, yet we have seen on many occasions that this doesn't happen. Players are suspended for headshots, but yet the PA appeals it saying it's unfair. Then we also have the fact that after playing a lifetime of hockey, how do you pinpoint exactly when the damage was done?
This
Colin Campbell is a total doorknob and put the NHL into this mess, but shouldn't this be more of the PA's job? Instead the PA is just off trying to chase dollars and increase salary. They do nothing to actually protect the players at all. What a pointless union.
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Is he also suing the junior league and AHL for money? He played as many games in those leagues as the NHL so maybe he was hurt when he played there.
And was his family pushing him to retire or sue the league when he was alive and earning NHL money? It seems rather disingenuous to me to show up after he is done earning but not say anything when the issue is actually happening.
Last edited by Beatle17; 12-08-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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Chris Kuc @ChrisKuc
Steve Montador lawsuit details four instances when he was diagnosed with a concussion and played for #Blackhawks within next day or two.
Chris Kuc @ChrisKuc
Montador lawsuit alleges he suffered 15 documented concussions in career, including 5 in 3 months during '11-12 season with #Blackhawks.
There may not have been concussion protocol in place in the 2000's, but did any sane person think concussions wouldn't have long term effects?
I dunno. My dad told me to keep playing as a 13 year old with a rung bell and a headache. I doubt he would have if he knew there could be long term damage. Heck, I still see it with parents even after all we've learned. Sometimes, there's not as much "choice" as people think.
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That's kind of where the rub is for me, people knew concussions weren't good (players and the league) but both pretty much kept their heads in the sand and ignored it. The league ignored it because it's bad for business, and players ignored it because they had to play to make money.
I changed a few small words to shift the point of view on this. People tend to look at this from a star players perspective. "Ohhh you get to go out and play a game, and make millions doing it, while thousands of adoring fans scream your name and ladies throw their undergarments at you. And you have a headache? Boohoo you chose it!" This isn't the case for the majority of players. Sure they make good money, some may only do so for a few years and then leave with no other life skills, and brain damage to boot because they were repeatedly told THIS is what you have to do to keep your job.
How many people in here would physically fight to keep their job? I'm sure there are at least a few that make close to or similar money as a low-level hockey player. Would you take repeated punches to the face for it? And lets not forget that the vast majority of high level players were exactly that until they got to the pro leagues, and only then were they told they had to fight to play. Many of them spent their junior/college careers being protected by the guys who couldn't skate, and now they're expected to be the protectors.
So yes, they made the choice to step out onto the ice surface, just like I make the choice to get out of bed everyday to come down to the job I hate. Is it my choice, and can I leave at anytime? Sure, but I also need to pay my mortgage/bills and eat and sleep and care for my dog, etc... So I do things I don't want, just like most people, and yes, even NHL hockey players.
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I'm not saying the league is innocent in the matter, I just feel like the players and PA should have some blame as well.
I don't disagree that the PA should shoulder some blame for lobbying more for the finances of the players and less so for the safety, but if the league had access to knowledge about the long term affects of these injuries for years prior to instilling regulations and protocols for return to play, they shoulder a large portion of that as well. If the PA had the same information and sheltered it (entirely possible) then they would have the same blame.
The argument, is NOT that he knew that fighting would have repercussions. The players do, but don't understand in totality those repercussions. That's not their skillset - not the trade they were hired for.
What the argument IS, is that the NHL knew the player were being concussed, and did not apply enough safeguards to protect the players.
Was the player able to differentiate between; being dazed, seeing stars, and the 3 grades of concussions.
Who is responsible for that? The professionals/doctors, or the player? Is it a split?
I feel the players have a good argument, that the league is at least partially responsible, as they supply the doctors.
It is obviously a split. the question is how much. Take the four incidents with the Blackhawks I would be willing to bet that Montador himself was chomping at the bit to get back out there in the following game each time. Why didn't he hold himself back? Why didn't his agent hold him back? Why didn't the union make an issue of it? All three of those entities share culpability with the Blackhawks, as far as I am concerned.
However, in those cases, the majority of the culpability falls on the team and their doctor. And, given what we knew about concussions in 2011-12, that doctor should probably lose his medical license if the claims in the suit can be proven.
Not surprised as I assume the Montador lawyers have been putting their case together. Those comments made by Colin Campbell that were recently unearthed by are going to be pretty damning for the NHL as it's fairly obvious he and some others high up in the NHL weren't taking head shots seriously enough. This is what happens though when a large league like the NHL hires clowns to run the show and Campbell was a total idiot.
Is there something more recent with Colin Campbell or are you talking about the stuff that leaked in 2010 when e-mail were posted?
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Originally Posted by JobHopper
The thing is, my posts, thoughts and insights may be my opinions but they're also quite factual.
Not arguing with you, but if you take out fighting wouldn't that lead to more dirty plays and cheap shots? Right now after a dirty play or something along those lines, a teammate or the player himself well step up and fight. Then it's over. If they can't fight and settle it that way then what are they going to do? Dirty plays and cheap shots to get back at them likely. Isn't that more dangerous than a fight? I think so. IMO fighting still has a place in the game
A dirty play is objectively less dangerous than 5-6 bare knuckle punches to the head.
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Physical play and fighting are two different things.
Physical play, If done cleanly, is to take you out of the play.
Fighting is bare knuckles to the side of your head, leading to concussions, trauma, brain damage, etc....
apples and oranges.
Physical play results in a sudden change in momentum, resulting in the brain making contact with the skull. Fighting while dangerous is likely less so than a number of the big hits that are celebrated here. A lot of the concussions are actually due to the head hitting the ice. Once again a sudden change in momentum.
Why? You can't even hit in peewee hockey anymore. Like it or not, the physical aspect of the game is slowly but surely fading away. I don't think hitting is going anywhere anytime soon, but it wouldn't shock me if 20 years down the road the game is more like women's hockey where full on body checking is gone.
Agreed. And it would be like the NFL playing flag. You'd never see that so why are people so hard to jump on the NHL
Physical play results in a sudden change in momentum, resulting in the brain making contact with the skull. Fighting while dangerous is likely less so than a number of the big hits that are celebrated here. A lot of the concussions are actually due to the head hitting the ice. Once again a sudden change in momentum.
They are apples and apples.
Some posters in here are arguing about taking hitting out of the game, the article doesn't mention anything about taking hitting out of the game, nor does the Montador family. It's all about fighting.
Researchers who autopsied the brain of former NHL defenceman Steve Montador have discovered he had chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, the progressively degenerative disease that’s been linked to repeated blows to the head.
Montador, who died in February at age 35 of an undisclosed cause, had sustained multiple concussions during his hockey career and had been exhibiting signs of a possible brain disorder, including depression, memory problems and erratic behaviour.
His brain was donated after his death for analysis to the Canadian Sports Concussion Project at Toronto’s Krembil Neuroscience Centre, and researchers confirmed the diagnosis of CTE on Tuesday.
Neurosurgeon Dr. Charles Tator, head of the project, said the analysis of Montador’s brain showed he had widespread deposits of a protein called hyperphosphorylated tau. The abnormal protein in brain cells is a marker for CTE.
“And he had a lot of it,” said Tator.
In the wake of the announcement, Montador’s family said they plan to launch a lawsuit against the NHL, saying in a statement on their lawyer’s website that “the finding of widespread CTE in Steven’s brain helps us all better understand that his brain was ravaged by disease and he was unable to control it.”
William Gibbs, an attorney at the Chicago-based firm Corboy & Demetrio, said on the website that the neuropathological analysis confirmed the family’s suspicions that Montador’s brain was “decaying due to the head hits he endured during his NHL career.”
“CTE has afflicted yet another young athlete and his family. It is heartbreaking that such a vibrant young man sustained such monumental brain damage while playing a professional sport,” said Gibbs.
The league reacted to the potential lawsuit in an emailed statement: “The NHL family shares in the sorrow of one of our own losing his life prematurely, and our thoughts, condolences and prayers remain with Steve’s family and friends. However, we do not agree that the reports and allegations made today establish any link between Steve’s death and his NHL career.”
Gibbs’s firm is also representing the family of Derek Boogaard in their lawsuit against the NHL. The 28-year-old former enforcer died in 2011 of an apparently accidental overdose of alcohol and painkillers. Despite his young age, a brain autopsy found Boogaard already had severe CTE.
Some posters in here are arguing about taking hitting out of the game, the article doesn't mention anything about taking hitting out of the game, nor does the Montador family. It's all about fighting.
apples/oranges
Not sure about that, since the quote mentions practices, and also "thousands" of traumas. That can't be just about fighting.
