2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

If there's no budget, why didn't they offer Darvish more money a couple years ago?

Why didn't they offer Price market value this season? They could have easily signed him for one or two years at 30 Mil is there was no budget.

There is a budget now.

I think AA did offer for Darvish but it was a blind auction and he underestimated the winning bid.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't agree with this whatsoever. What most don't understand is it's not like buying a used car. You just don't go in and make an offer. There are discussions back in forth to give an understanding of what's expected. It's quite conceivable that the Jays waited to see what others were offering and would come in if it was in their ballpark, rather than getting into the bidding war. In my mind, if Price really wanted to come back, his agent would be saying, "the Sox offered $32M for 7 years", we'd be willing to stay with the Jays for $31M at 6 years, or something to that extent to get the talks started again. If the Jays made the half assed effort and gave 5 years at $26M, they'd be criticized even further for making that lazy effort. It would also look bad on them in the FA market.
With the money Price went for, I'm glad the Jays walked. It doesn't fit in with their cost structure and it's a bad contract. I'm more upset with the lack of other FA activity which could address their SP and RP needs.

You can argue for or against Price. Some will say he would
Make a difference, some will say he won't. We'll see in the season when the Jays get to face him 5+ times in a head to head matchup.

That said, there's no arguing the fact that the Jays have done nothing here. They took the money coming off the books on Romero, Price (pro-rated), and Buerhle's contract and used that towards resigning Estrada, adding Happ to replace Buerhle and giving the rest to Donaldson's impending raise.

This is a team that is 1-3 players away from winning a World Series in their ridiculously short window (money again) and can't even be bothered to sign some bullpen help while small market teams like Oakland have no problems throwing money at players like Madsen.

They haven't reinvested a goddamn penny back into the team yet when they are rumoured to have made an additional 100M last year as a result of their run.

As a long term Jays fan, I am completely disgusted. It shows that there is
Nothing this team or its fans can do to get Rogers to change their line of thinking. All the Rogers apologists on here like to point to them being a top ten team in payroll, but realistically that doesn't mean much when there's only Around 15 million that separates the 20th ranked team from the Blue Jays in 2015. 50 millions separates the Jays from even being in the top 5 in payroll so realistically the Jays aren't spending that much when you put it into perspective.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't agree with this whatsoever. What most don't understand is it's not like buying a used car. You just don't go in and make an offer. There are discussions back in forth to give an understanding of what's expected. It's quite conceivable that the Jays waited to see what others were offering and would come in if it was in their ballpark, rather than getting into the bidding war. In my mind, if Price really wanted to come back, his agent would be saying, "the Sox offered $32M for 7 years", we'd be willing to stay with the Jays for $31M at 6 years, or something to that extent to get the talks started again. If the Jays made the half assed effort and gave 5 years at $26M, they'd be criticized even further for making that lazy effort. It would also look bad on them in the FA market.
With the money Price went for, I'm glad the Jays walked. It doesn't fit in with their cost structure and it's a bad contract. I'm more upset with the lack of other FA activity which could address their SP and RP needs.

If the Jays had made an offer first and given that Price enjoyed his time here and given the team is still intact from last season, why not assume Price might sign for a discount since he "definitely would have gone back to the Jays" (Price's agent). I believe if the Jays were serious, the offer would have been respectable and not half-assed but since there was not any, then one has to assume the Jays were not that interested. Signing Happ for 3 yrs at age 32 for 36 million (in my mind) is half-assed effort to get legitimately better as well as giving Smoak an over payment is wasted salary.

They do need to address the bullpen. Need another lefty to bolster the bullpen. I read the Jays wants to spread the salaries about and meet their needs throughout the line up. What that brings you is average help and that is what the Jays had before, average pitching.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

They haven't reinvested a goddamn penny back into the team yet that is rumours to have made an additional 100M last year as a result of their run.

As a long term Jays fan, I am completely disgusted. It shows that there is
Nothing this team or its fans can do to get Rogers to change their line of thinking. All the Rogers apologists on here like to point to them being a top ten team in payroll, but realistically that doesn't mean much when there's not 15 M in payroll separating the 9th place team from the 20th. Around 15 million separates the 20th ranked team from the Blue Jays in 2015. 50 millions separates the Jays from even being in the top 5 in payroll so realistically the Jaya aren't spending that much when you put it into perspective.

We'll see how it looks as the off-season in baseball is continuous.

Reading the discussion above I think Rogers has been burned twice by opening the bank for mediocre GMs. Opened the bank for JP Riccardi and AA and it's burned them with 0 playoff appearances (the Jays playoff run came after Rogers decided to basically fire AA and close the books).

So the cycle continues and now the budget is tight again. That doesn't mean it's a bad team. Great offense and the pitching needs a few tweaks. Let's see how the rest of the off-season plays out. Lots of FA's still out there.

[GirlySports]

I think Chen is the lefty the Jays need. Could get him for a Samardja-type contract or maybe a bit more.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There is a budget now.

I think AA did offer for Darvish but it was a blind auction and he underestimated the winning bid.

It has never been confirmed that the Jays offered on Darvish. General concensus is that they didn't despite yapping in the media leading up to the event. They immediately switched their attention to Gio Gonzalez and Matt Garza after they "lost out" on Darvish. In true Jays fashion though, that was them throwing #### up against the media wall and seeing what sticks. They landed it neither, and Matt Garza was on record saying the Jays never even contacted him despite their desire expressed in the media. Here's an article on the Darvish situation. Amazing that AA says in the article he was going to have to get creative to sign a pitcher when according to you he didn't work under any financial contrainsts.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...service=mobile

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

We'll see how it looks as the off-season in baseball is continuous.

Reading the discussion above I think Rogers has been burned twice by opening the bank for mediocre GMs. Opened the bank for JP Riccardi and AA and it's burned them with 0 playoff appearances (the Jays playoff run came after Rogers decided to basically fire AA and close the books).

So the cycle continues and now the budget is tight again. That doesn't mean it's a bad team. Great offense and the pitching needs a few tweaks. Let's see how the rest of the off-season plays out. Lots of FA's still out there.

What is your definition of breaking the bank? For the past 3 years only, the Jays have had a payroll of about 122M. That's barely above average. Very little separating them from about ten other teams in and around that range. They aren't even in the stratosphere of the top 7 teams and that gap is going to even widen further after this offseason. Take a look at the list of 2015 payrolls below.

http://deadspin.com/2015-payrolls-an...eam-1695040045

[JiriHrdina]

If I hated an organization as much as you do - I wouldn't cheer for them.

[GirlySports]

I think he had to get creative due to the 5 years limit, no necessarily because of money. Also I think at that time AA wasn't interested in free agents and wants to get players more via trade.

But ok if you consider a jump from 70m to 120m and then not being allowed to go absolutely insane into the 150s or 200s as a budget constraint then I'll give you that.

Edit: i think it's Rogers definition of breaking the bank, not mine. Those Vernon Wells, BJ Ryan, Jose Reyes contracts.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If I hated an organization as much as you do - I wouldn't cheer for them.

I don't hate the team or the organization. I hate the owners with a passion. I actually don't blame Rogers for not spending money in the past. It's not as if the Jays fans supported the team all that well and they didn't really have the foundation of a team worth spending money on. They do now though (and have since 2014) and When the Jays went out and did what they did this year and the fans reacted the way they did, and the general responses of that is " doesn't change anything", enough is enough. This is ridiculous.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I don't hate the team or the organization. I hate the owners with a passion. I actually don't blame Rogers for not spending money in the past. It's not as if the Jays fans supported the team all that well and they didn't really have the foundation of a team worth spending money on. They do now though (and have since 2014) and When the Jays went out and did what they did this year and the fans reacted the way they did, and the general responses of that is " doesn't chang me anything", enough is enough. This is ridiculous.

they're stuck, they hired a cheap guy on july 1.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think Chen is the lefty the Jays need. Could get him for a Samardja-type contract or maybe a bit more.

The Jays rotation was done the minute they signed Happ. I've come to accept that despite not being happy with it.

The focus needs to be in the bullpen now.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

The Jays rotation was done the minute they signed Happ. I've come to accept that despite not being happy with it.

The focus needs to be in the bullpen now.

They're expecting big things from Sanchez/Osuna this season too.

It's the type of scenario that'll either pay off huge, or crash and burn hard.

I think a lot of us are guilty of being pessimistic, but the kids could catch lightning in a bottle...

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

They're expecting big things from Sanchez/Osuna this season too.

It's the type of scenario that'll either pay off huge, or crash and burn hard.

I think a lot of us are guilty of being pessimistic, but the kids could catch lightning in a bottle...

If they still project Osuna and Sanchez as starters, they need to start developing them as such. I fear that boat has as already sailed on Sanchez. Would prefer if it didn't on Osuna.

If they are Osuna as a Mariana Rivera type, by all means keep him in the pen though.

[TheAlpineOracle]

How can Edwin's agent say he's going to sign in Boston if they don't work out a deal? He's still under contract. Isn't that the very definition of tampering? I can see the extension demands, but easer I essentially indicating where you would sign otherwise, that's CFL territory.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/will-the...-help%7E764930

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

If they still project Osuna and Sanchez as starters, they need to start developing them as such. I fear that boat has as already sailed on Sanchez. Would prefer if it didn't on Osuna.

If they are Osuna as a Mariana Rivera type, by all means keep him in the pen though.

I do not believe the boat has sail on Sanchez; after all, he is only 23. I feel Sanchez if he develops his other pitches well, he will be stretched out for the starting rotation. He has great potential to be a big star.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by VERVE

I do not believe the boat has sail on Sanchez

As a starter I absolutely do think the boat has sailed on Sanchez. Even dating back to his MILB career his K rate has been far to pedestrian and his walk rate terrible... as a starter. As a reliever his K rate is still not great (but becomes better then his rate as a starter) and his walk rate improves significantly. Combine that with his aptitude for inducing weak contact and he's an effective reliever.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

How can Edwin's agent say he's going to sign in Boston if they don't work out a deal? He's still under contract. Isn't that the very definition of tampering? I can see the extension demands, but easer I essentially indicating where you would sign otherwise, that's CFL territory.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/will-the...-help%7E764930

Edwin's agent didn't say anything. This is just terrible reporting by TSN. All that happened was that there was a report from a Boston reporter that Edwin gave the Jays the spring training deadline and speculation that Boston would be a good fit. That's it.

It's all just useless banter. LaCava has already said the Jays haven't heard anything about a deadline. Either way, Encarnacion isn't involved with the negotiations so these ridiculous deadlines that come up in any pro sport are just negotiation tactics. If the Jays came to EE's agent and made a serious offer in July do you think he's going to just hang up the phone because Edwin doesn't want to be disturbed during the year? Most of these players just let their agent do all the work and rely on them to maximize their salary.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by VERVE

If the Jays had made an offer first and given that Price enjoyed his time here and given the team is still intact from last season, why not assume Price might sign for a discount since he "definitely would have gone back to the Jays" (Price's agent). I believe if the Jays were serious, the offer would have been respectable and not half-assed but since there was not any, then one has to assume the Jays were not that interested.

Because this never happens with top free agents? Do you think that the player's association is going to let Price leave tens of millions of dollars on the table and drive down the price of other top pitchers? And this all ignores the fact that the Red Sox could just keep upping the price - $217m is what they got him for, not necessarily their ceiling. They were getting Price no matter what. The reports say they initially offered $200 million, then the Cards came into the bidding at $190 million. So the Red Sox responded by upping their offer to $217 million. That's 27 million more than the next closest team which is ridiculous.

I'd like to hear what your idea of a respectable offer from the Jays would've been during this time that would've changed his mind. Keeping in consideration that the players association is breathing down his neck and his agent also stands to lose hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars too by leaving money on the table as well.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by Parallex

As a starter I absolutely do think the boat has sailed on Sanchez. Even dating back to his MILB career his K rate has been far to pedestrian and his walk rate terrible... as a starter. As a reliever his K rate is still not great (but becomes better then his rate as a starter) and his walk rate improves significantly. Combine that with his aptitude for inducing weak contact and he's an effective reliever.

He is only 23 yrs young. He has been a 1 or 2 pitch pitcher. If he works on his secondary pitches, his potential is high to be a star in the rotation. He is way too young to be counted out.