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That's all fine, in theory. What we got was a choreographed ballet that looked choreographed. I find them hard to watch, because you aren't seeing characters react to the action of the other, you are seeing them go through their set moves and timings. Like the rest of the prequels, it all seams so forced.
That, and the battle with Maul has no weight to it, because we hardly know who he is. It doesn't matter. They could have been fighting a battle droid for all we cared, the character was so under developed. Compare the wight of that battle to the one in Empire.
Why did we need Maul all that developed, he was a pawn, and underling, he was there to be cool, look cool and then eat a light sabre. He was basically the Boba Fett of the movie. He did get to kill a Jedi Knight to show how developed as a Warrior he was.
We didn't need his back story, or him having long drawn out conversations with his Master.
We learned that he was going to be the face of the Sith's revenge revealed, we knew that he was well trained.
good enough for me, and I really liked the fight, and I like that Obi Maul segment after his master was killed, you could feel the blood lust radiating off of Maul as he paced behind the shield starring at Kenobi.
You felt the conflict in Obi as he looked at his masters body and he attacked with a fury.
Maul didn't need to be developed, he needed to be a threat, which we saw, and then he needed to die, which he did.
I'm sure that DS didn't even lose a nights sleep over the thought of Maul dying, he served his purpose like a porpoise
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Why did we need Maul all that developed, he was a pawn, and underling, he was there to be cool, look cool and then eat a light sabre. He was basically the Boba Fett of the movie. He did get to kill a Jedi Knight to show how developed as a Warrior he was.
He's fairly well developed in Clone Wars, which is still canon.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
He's fairly well developed in Clone Wars, which is still canon.
Yeah he was, and I loved that series.
But even that laid it out there that he wasn't all that powerful or great or much of a thinker at the end of the day. He was basically a thug with a lightsaber.
And when he actually had to face his master.
Still one of my favorite all time Sidious moments in the SWG.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I'm having trouble thinking of any on-screen act anywhere in the SW canon that's more evil than
Spoiler!
Maul murdering Obi Wan's lover in front of him just to torture him.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 12-07-2015 at 02:50 PM.
But even that laid it out there that he wasn't all that powerful or great or much of a thinker at the end of the day. He was basically a thug with a lightsaber.
And when he actually had to face his master.
Still one of my favorite all time Sidious moments in the SWG.
That is one of the biggest hole in TCW's for me... there was never any finality to that. "I have other uses for you"... maybe he returns in Rebels?
First is close but not as bad for me, because the slaves weren't a fully developed, likable character with relationship plotlines to other main characters built up over several seasons. Second isn't close.
Seriously, when that scene happened I was like "holy crap, they put that in an animated TV show ostensibly for audiences including little kids?"
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
First is close but not as bad for me, because the slaves weren't a fully developed, likable character with relationship plotlines to other main characters built up over several seasons. Second isn't close.
Seriously, when that scene happened I was like "holy crap, they put that in an animated TV show ostensibly for audiences including little kids?"
Not disagreeing with you at all, Maul was all about being cast out and forgotten about and he blamed Ben, and wanted him to feel his pain.
I liked Satine, but the whole pacifistic Mando's kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
I think the Slave story line was well done because it showed that the Slavers had no idea of the value of any life. It was good that they didn't develop the victims, and they did what they did like it was a part of the playbook to break the other slaves.
I do remember the one Satine story line where she was being held hostage and we saw the Vader side of Anakin where he ruthlessly came up behind the hostage holder and stabbed him through the heart from behind.
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Not a lot of people do, she's one of the funniest interviews in Hollywood. They had her one woman play on I think HBO last year and I had tears rolling down my face.
Carrie is the bomb.
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Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
In the context of duels I really like Vader vs Luke in ROTJ, as when Luke overwhelms Vader you can tell it is from pure rage induced strength. It has a very visceral feel. Clone Wars took some time, but they did have some fantastic duels as well.
I really hope that the hinted at duel between Kylo Renn and Finn is a one sided beating like this:
I want to see how dangerous Renn is, with Finn needing help to even just survive and escape. The feeling of seeing Vader blocking blaster fire with his hand in TESB is the kind the kind of menace I want.
Why are the prequel fights ####ty? Because I don't give a crap about the people in them and for the most part they don't care about eachother either. It's protagonist vs. generic bad guy in order to stuff some action in there. With the exception of one fight they aren't even important ways of advancing the plot.
Darth Maul vs. Obi Wan and Who Cares.
Who is Darth Maul? Well according to how we are introduced to him he is a bad guy, not the key figure in the plot, but basically a henchman. What does he do that is particularly evil? Nothing. Why do our protagonists want to fight him? Because he's there and it was in the script. They don't know who Darth Maul is. They have no emotional investment in the fight either, why should I? Eventually Who Cares dies, Obi Wan looks pissed, and finally has a reason to be invested in this thing. Some more choreographed fighting then he kills Darth Maul and we can finally move onto seeing that dumb kid again. Nothing screams exciting like a disposable henchman biting the dust.
Now compare it to A New Hope. We know who Vader is. He's the bad guy. Killing guys with his bare hands, taking prisoners, waving his big stick around. Vader does more in the first 10 minutes of A New Hope to show he's a villain and how capable he is than Darth Maul did in the entire Episode I, and he hasn't even used the Force to choke anybody yet. Without any more information, a fight with Vader by anybody is already more compelling than anything with Darth Maul.
Now we learn that not only did Vader kill Luke's father, but he was Obi Wan's pupil to boot. So now Luke not only knows Darth Vader's name (so he's got a leg up on Qui Gon and young Obi Wan already) but has a reason to hate him. Obi Wan lost a friend to Vader, and wants redemption for failing the training. So when those two face off and Vader says "I was the learner but now I am the master" you actually feel like there's some bad blood here. Choreography or not this is an actual duel of fates, master and apprentice finally going at it, this is a big deal. Then Obi Wan just gives up? Why did he do that? He said he'd become more powerful than he could possibly imagine but that's kind of vague, isn't it? Luke is all alone now, in his fight against the ####ing badass villain, but most importantly a villain who actually lasts long enough to get some sort of a story arc going.
Episode II
Who the #### is Count Dooku? I care even less about this fight than the one with Darth Maul. At least he has some kind of introduction. Why am I suppose to care about this fight? Why do the characters aside from "it's in the script that you need to fight the bad guy who we again know isn't the main bad guy"? Just terrible.
Empire Strikes Back
The duel of all duels. Luke is angry, trying to confront the man who killed his father and mentor despite Yoda telling him he isn't ready. Vader toys with him, continuing to show just how powerful he is. Luke is flailing around, Vader is overpowering him with one hand and throwing #### at him and you can't help but feel the blind rage that Luke is feeling. The one of the most culturally impactful moments of cinematic history is unleashed: "I am your father." WHAT?! Are you ####ing kidding me? Who the hell is thinking of fight choreography at this point?
ROTS vs. ROTJ
Luke finally overpowers Vader, resists temptation, and then Vader gets redemption. Perfect. Again, who cares about fight choreography when Luke is just wailing at Vader, or when the Emperor is blasting Luke.
Anakin vs. Obi Wan finally gives us a duel with a little bit of backstory, but is dragged on so long that I don't remember any of it except when a couple of the most hamfisted lines in blockbuster history are given. I'm not sure there is a smiley or emoji good enough to convey just how cringeworthy "From my point of view it is you who are evil" was. This is what is going up against "You don't know the power of the dark side!" Ugh.
Last edited by Roughneck; 12-07-2015 at 11:02 PM.
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Why are the prequel fights ####ty? Because I don't give a crap about the people in them and for the most part they don't care about eachother either. It's protagonist vs. generic bad guy in order to stuff some action in there. With the exception of one fight they aren't even important ways of advancing the plot.
Darth Maul vs. Obi Wan and Who Cares.
Who is Darth Maul? Well according to how we are introduced to him he is a bad guy, not the key figure in the plot, but basically a henchman. What does he do that is particularly evil? Nothing. Why do our protagonists want to fight him? Because he's there and it was in the script. They don't know who Darth Maul is. They have no emotional investment in the fight either, why should I? Eventually Who Cares dies, Obi Wan looks pissed, and finally has a reason to be invested in this thing. Some more choreographed fighting then he kills Darth Maul and we can finally move onto seeing that dumb kid again. Nothing screams exciting like a disposable henchman biting the dust.
Now compare it to A New Hope. We know who Vader is. He's the bad guy. Killing guys with his bare hands, taking prisoners, waving his big stick around. Vader does more in the first 10 minutes of A New Hope to show he's a villain and how capable he is than Darth Maul did in the entire Episode I, and he hasn't even used the Force to choke anybody yet. Without any more information, a fight with Vader by anybody is already more compelling than anything with Darth Maul.
Now we learn that not only did Vader kill Luke's father, but he was Obi Wan's pupil to boot. So now Luke not only knows Darth Vader's name (so he's got a leg up on Qui Gon and young Obi Wan already) but has a reason to hate him. Obi Wan lost a friend to Vader, and wants redemption for failing the training. So when those two face off and Vader says "I was the learner but now I am the master" you actually feel like there's some bad blood here. Choreography or not this is an actual duel of fates, master and apprentice finally going at it, this is a big deal. Then Obi Wan just gives up? Why did he do that? He said he'd become more powerful than he could possibly imagine but that's kind of vague, isn't it? Luke is all alone now, in his fight against the ####ing badass villain, but most importantly a villain who actually lasts long enough to get some sort of a story arc going.
Episode II
Who the #### is Count Dooku? I care even less about this fight than the one with Darth Maul. At least he has some kind of introduction. Why am I suppose to care about this fight? Why do the characters aside from "it's in the script that you need to fight the bad guy who we again know isn't the main bad guy"? Just terrible.
Empire Strikes Back
The duel of all duels. Luke is angry, trying to confront the man who killed his father and mentor despite Yoda telling him he isn't ready. Vader toys with him, continuing to show just how powerful he is. Luke is flailing around, Vader is overpowering him with one hand and throwing #### at him and you can't help but feel the blind rage that Luke is feeling. The one of the most culturally impactful moments of cinematic history is unleashed: "I am your father." WHAT?! Are you ####ing kidding me? Who the hell is thinking of fight choreography at this point?
ROTS vs. ROTJ
Luke finally overpowers Vader, resists temptation, and then Vader gets redemption. Perfect. Again, who cares about fight choreography when Luke is just wailing at Vader, or when the Emperor is blasting Luke.
Anakin vs. Obi Wan finally gives us a duel with a little bit of backstory, but is dragged on so long that I don't remember any of it except when a couple of the most hamfisted lines in blockbuster history are given. I'm not sure there is a smiley or emoji good enough to convey just how cringeworthy "From my point of view it is you who are evil" was. This is what is going up against "You don't know the power of the dark side!" Ugh.
Why are the prequel fights ####ty? Because I don't give a crap about the people in them and for the most part they don't care about eachother either. It's protagonist vs. generic bad guy in order to stuff some action in there. With the exception of one fight they aren't even important ways of advancing the plot. ....
Thanks for summing it up better than I had. I was going to write a bunch of that, but I'm kinda lazy.
