2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[bluejays]

There's a few things here to consider when talking about the Jays as year in, year out contenders. Firstly, they're in the hardest division in baseball, so to try and build sustainability from within from mostly developing internally - is a pipe dream. Anyone can talk the moneyball talk, but in this division you either have to pay up year after year (Yanks and Sox), or develop in mediocrity for a few seasons for the chance to go for it for a couple years (Tampa Bay, and this past years' Jays). I normally don't think in black and white, but I think those are your simple two options. When the Jays want to take an in between approach, I completely think it's misguided intentions. What makes them think they're smarter in drafting, scouting and developing than any other teams within their division? Again, nothing but an illusion which somebody sold, but I don't think will work.

As for Shapiro and Co., I prefer witnessing results as opposed to listening to the big talker. The results of his moves so far are very very mediocre, so his words haven't meant much at all, despite being well spoken.

[Harry Lime]

Thole will be the backup catcher, which means that they can go get another bat bench. Only that bat bench is Smoak. In Smoak's tryout (last year), he didn't excel at any one skill. If I was the new GM, I would ask what the budget this year is going to be, and then raise it by 3.9M, because why the hell would they make that decision one week before hiring the GM?

Everything this offseason has been a downgrade, and if you are going to downgrade then you take a flyer on a guy that excels at one skill. OBP, speed, defensively. Or a young guy that could break out. Smoak is going to bother me all season long. Thole not so much, because at least he does one thing really well.

Something that AJ Jimenez can't be taught, apparently.

[GirlySports]

there were no budget constraints. When you trade Echeivaria for Reyes AND Johnson AND Bheurle there are going to be budget problems. It's a miracle he got rid of Wells

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

there were no budget constraints. When you trade Echeivaria for Reyes AND Johnson AND Bheurle there are going to be budget problems. It's a miracle he got rid of Wells

There are budget constraints, how could you possibly say the opposite is true with such confidence?

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah people that expect this team to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers are out to lunch.

A top 10 payroll should be more then enough to build a contender.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Top 10 is misleading when the top 3-5 spend twice as much as the Jays and skew the average overall. The difference between teams like the Dodgers/Red Sox/Yankees and the Jays is larger than the difference between the Jays and the team with the lowest payroll.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah people that expect this team to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers are out to lunch.

A top 10 payroll should be more then enough to build a contender.

It isn't. I could be if the stars aligned, but the reality for the Blue Jays is they're in a division where you've got to keep up with the big spenders or most likely miss the playoffs each year, save for the stars aligning like this past season.

We have an ownership group that can keep up with the Yankees and Red Sox, but they don't because they're a company with shareholders to answer to, so the team is what it is.

You can say you're okay with that, and that's fine, it seems many are, but you can 't make a solid argument that we're building a playoff team. We're building a really good team that has a way better shot at missing the playoff than making them. That's just the unfortunate reality of this division.

[Harry Lime]

It's the clear lack of desire to build a contender that is infuriating.

They could have posted 20M for Kenta Maeda using the money from last years run as a one time expense. Then used an internal or 1M option on a bench bat instead of Smoak. Then trade Revere and his 6.7M projection for a 3M bullpen piece, letting Saunders and Pompey alternate LF if needed. The 6.6M in savings could have been allocated to outbidding for Maeda in the 80-90M range. Still within internal budget.

Stoman, Maeda, Estrada, Happ, Dickey.
Chavez, (Revere guy) in bullpen.
Would have offered contract to Hague, had there been a plan.

Fans happy.

[Jason14h]

This season has exactly 2 plans

Plan A: Sneak into playoffs, make $$, Let EE and Bautista walk in summer and get 2 picks for them. Blame them leaving for the next rebuild. Probably trade Donaldson before hitting FA

Plan B: Have a bad 1st half, trade EE and Bautista for players. Blame them leaving for the next rebuild. Probably trade Donaldson before hitting FA

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It isn't. I could be if the stars aligned, but the reality for the Blue Jays is they're in a division where you've got to keep up with the big spenders or most likely miss the playoffs each year, save for the stars aligning like this past season.

We have an ownership group that can keep up with the Yankees and Red Sox, but they don't because they're a company with shareholders to answer to, so the team is what it is.

You can say you're okay with that, and that's fine, it seems many are, but you can 't make a solid argument that we're building a playoff team. We're building a really good team that has a way better shot at missing the playoff than making them. That's just the unfortunate reality of this division.

It's even harder to match the Red Sox and Yankees spending when the Canadian dollar is so low.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by jayswin

There are budget constraints, how could you possibly say the opposite is true with such confidence?

What was the Jays payroll before AA? Didnt he raise it by 40 million? Thats not a budget constraint. Of course if he asking for more on top of that when he team was still mediocre Rogers has to question it.

He cant keep asking for more money when his team kept being below .500

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

It's even harder to match the Red Sox and Yankees spending when the Canadian dollar is so low.

It was covered earlier in a blue Jays thread somewhere, but the effect of the lower Canadian dollar is minimal in this case. The way that Rogers has the Jays leveraged and owning the television rights to their own product cuts the difference to nearly negligible. I don't have time at the moment, but some inventive Google searches will probably find the original articles.

[OzSome]

So Red Sox stole another ace pitcher from the Blue Jays in an off-season signing. They did it before with Roger Clemens and now with David Price.

Blue Jays had a good run last season so Blue Jays fans and the Toronto media will be expecting the same thing this season. If they started slow next season, both Shapiro and the new GM will wish they didn't sign with the Blue Jays because Toronto media and the fans will eat them alive. I am hoping that won't happen though and Jays continue with their good baseball. Aside from the starting pitchers, Jays are pretty much the same team with addition of Saunders on the outfield. Missed the entire season due to injury and Stroman having to play a full season.

[Skaloper]

Looks like the Jays really wanted no part in David Price.

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/903676

Price's agent 'surprised' Blue Jays didn't make offer. Price's agent Bo McKinnis told MLB Network Radio on Sunday his client would have gone back to Toronto, and that he was surprised not to have received an offer.

"The Blue Jays were the biggest surprise. David absolutely would have gone back there," he explained. "That was the toughest part of this and I'm surprised we did not get an offer."

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Skaloper

Looks like the Jays really wanted no part in David Price.

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/903676

Price's agent 'surprised' Blue Jays didn't make offer. Price's agent Bo McKinnis told MLB Network Radio on Sunday his client would have gone back to Toronto, and that he was surprised not to have received an offer.

"The Blue Jays were the biggest surprise. David absolutely would have gone back there," he explained. "That was the toughest part of this and I'm surprised we did not get an offer."

Wow, that's the exact **** we predicted. An Ace who had Toronto as the number one destination and we didn't even try. I'm sure they were afraid that if they offered him even a reasonable offer, like less than Boston, that he would have accepted.

"Hey, let's offer him $28mil over 6 years to say we tried"

"No, no, no, we heard he actually wants to play here, he might accept that and then we'd be screwed into continuing to try to be a contender".

"You're right, but what if Boston takes him and leapfrogs us in the playoff picture and destroys everything that fell into my lap when I took this job?".

"Welcome to the Blue Jays son, you'll do just fine here".

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by OzSome

So Red Sox stole another ace pitcher from the Blue Jays in an off-season signing. They did it before with Roger Clemens and now with David Price.

Blue Jays had a good run last season so Blue Jays fans and the Toronto media will be expecting the same thing this season. If they started slow next season, both Shapiro and the new GM will wish they didn't sign with the Blue Jays because Toronto media and the fans will eat them alive. I am hoping that won't happen though and Jays continue with their good baseball. Aside from the starting pitchers, Jays are pretty much the same team with addition of Saunders on the outfield. Missed the entire season due to injury and Stroman having to play a full season.

Ummm, the Jays signed Clemens away from the BSox then Clemens left the Jays for the Yankees two years later.

Toronto still should have at least made an offer on Price though considering the acquisition cost and Price being happy in Toronto. I'm not looking forward to another 22 years without Blue Jay playoffs.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, that's really disappointing.

....it's going to look even worse if Price helps the BoSox "cockblock" the Jays from winning anything significant during their pathetic little window here.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Ouch, that hurts. Would have loved to have him back for 6 or 7 years. That stings.

[bluejays]

I'm highly sceptical of Price's agents words. Maybe he wants to drive home a point to the Jays, but I'm not fully buying it. There's dialogue before offers are made. How do we not know that there wasn't talk about what the player and agent thought their client was worth? I find it hard to believe it took them as a surprise. If Price and co were sincere they'd say this was the price he'd be willing to sign for as a discount. The fact that hasn't come out kinda raises an alarm. Jays are cheap, no doubt. But there's more to the story than the agent saying the Jays didn't make an offer. If he was willing to take a discount for $31M, I'm glad the Jays didn't make an offer. He's simply not worth it.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by fleury

I'm highly sceptical of Price's agents words. Maybe he wants to drive home a point to the Jays, but I'm not fully buying it. There's dialogue before offers are made. How do we not know that there wasn't talk about what the player and agent thought their client was worth? I find it hard to believe it took them as a surprise. If Price and co were sincere they'd say this was the price he'd be willing to sign for as a discount. The fact that hasn't come out kinda raises an alarm. Jays are cheap, no doubt. But there's more to the story than the agent saying the Jays didn't make an offer. If he was willing to take a discount for $31M, I'm glad the Jays didn't make an offer. He's simply not worth it.

Whether he's worth it or not, when the top Pitcher is willing to play for your baseball team situated in a foreign country, you go out and get that pitcher. Very rare that an ace would ever consider signing in Toronto.

I don't think there's anything more to what Price's agent said. He isn't looking for another deal to leverage, he's already got his money. I think AA fully intended to resign Price and Had discussions with his agent. I think Rogers/Shapiro refused to sign off on any deal being offered to Price and that was the beginning of the end of AA. AA left, Shapiro didn't proceed with Price at all.

Jays haven't done a goddamn thing This offseason. As we speak, Madsen has just signed with Oakland while agents are saying on ESPN that the Jays are trying to dumpster dive to find a budget bullpen. This off season had played out exactly the way I said it would back in October when everyone was jumping down my throat for being negative. Pick up the options on Bautista/Edwin/Dickey as they were under market, go with what they got, and transition back into a bottom half payroll team in 2017. Truly sad to be a Blue Jays fan when management and ownership do not give a damn about anything other than maximizing their profits. A completely failed model in the professional sports world. It would be interesting to hear what the Jays current roster is thinking about this offseason. I highly doubt they are impressed. If the Jays get off to a slow start, in sure it won't take lot for Bautista and Co. To let their feelings be known.

I would fully expect for Toronto to sign Some mediocre free agent pitcher with a recognizable name in the near future people to counteract the backlash from Price's agents comments. It's the Rogers sleazy way. I'm thinking maybe Cliff Lee.