Update re. GM recruitment

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TurdFerguson

I dont fully understand why GMs would leave if a redraft happened. so you start again with a median roster, and you get to trade for all your favorite guys again (if that's what you want to do). Instead of having 6 teams control 80% of the value (so you always end up trading with the same people), you have more spread out assets and more GMs to try and trade with. again, sounds like fun to me. As they say, the fun is in the chase.

The thing I enjoy most about this game is identifying players, either via trade or draft, and watching them grow. I've drafted guys and been patient waiting for them to arrive to maximize their value. That's what I really enjoy.

So losing that would probably mean the league no longer is interesting. And I'd feel what's the point because once good GMs build a certain asset base again there would be a push to re-draft again.

Would I join another league? No. I would have no interest in that.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by dsavillian

we should just use Skype again. You get to use your MSN/hotmail tag and it's better than gtalk

I use Skype for work at work, could I run two versions at the same time?

[dsavillian]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I use Skype for work at work, could I run two versions at the same time?

Unsure.

[Slava]

I don't think you're on an island. I do think that the guys most opposed to a redraft in any form are the guys with the most assets. Like I look at some of the teams and realize that mine is middling in comparison. I'm alright with that because in order for me to get a bona fide superstar or two (which is a necessity to win the whole thing) would take an enormous package, if it's even plausible. To me that's the problem with the league.

Say Connor McDavid goes on the block today. I mean sure, he's an Oiler and sucks for that reason, but how many teams can even put together an offer that makes sense? For a lot of us it would mean a first and half of our best players and that might not even be all that attractive, let alone the holes in the roster after such a deal.

Then I look at Philadelphia with 10(!!) first round picks this year. I mean that's awesome, and one of them is mine for the time being, but I am not sure that's healthy for the league either. And I don't mean that as a shot on Joe Schum.

[TurdFerguson]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The thing I enjoy most about this game is identifying players, either via trade or draft, and watching them grow. I've drafted guys and been patient waiting for them to arrive to maximize their value. That's what I really enjoy.

So losing that would probably mean the league no longer is interesting. And I'd feel what's the point because once good GMs build a certain asset base again there would be a push to re-draft again.

Would I join another league? No. I would have no interest in that.

would would still get that chance with a redraft. pick the players and prospects you like or have liked and watch them grow. Choose to build a team of kids if you want.

I can understand the emotional investment with prospects though. That said, its not like you'd be losing the ability to draft a new ECHL/AHL etc.

[MolsonInBothHands]

What about the application 'Kik', pretty anonymous chat, group discussions easy to set up, etc.

My COC clan uses it to vent a lot.

[Swayze11]

Kik, Whatsapp, Skype are all better then this Kakao in my opinion. Everyone has a smart phone, everyone could get instant messages on them just like text messages.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TurdFerguson

would would still get that chance with a redraft. pick the players and prospects you like or have liked and watch them grow. Choose to build a team of kids if you want.

I can understand the emotional investment with prospects though. That said, its not like you'd be losing the ability to draft a new ECHL/AHL etc.

I know but it would feel like why bother if there is risk of just another re-draft.
That's just me. I'm not interested in a re-draft at all. If the league goes that way, I'll happily move on with no hard feelings.
Seems generally though people are looking for something less extreme.
I'm open to a dispersal draft but I think to be fair it would have to be asset wide, not just focused on players.

Tricky though
- Make the protected number too high and you risk not having an impact. Too low and you lose veteran GMs.

The bottom line is that GMs are not going to give up the best long-term assets - the assets likely to move on are the veteran players on the decline. But re-building franchises should focus on getting those and then flipping for better assets.

One of the things I struggle with is seeing GMs not take advantage of all the opportunities to gain assets
- Signing free agent prospects
- Participating in the draft (some GMs flip their picks at the last minute for below value because they can't make it)
- POTW awards (when available) to get cap
- Free agency (some teams lacking assets didn't even submit bids that equaled their total available cap...why?)

There are ways teams can improve their asset base. The teams have the strongest assets have used all of these.

So I struggle with that part of all this.

But to reiterate, I'm open to some sort of dispersal draft if done correctly.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't think you're on an island. I do think that the guys most opposed to a redraft in any form are the guys with the most assets. Like I look at some of the teams and realize that mine is middling in comparison. I'm alright with that because in order for me to get a bona fide superstar or two (which is a necessity to win the whole thing) would take an enormous package, if it's even plausible. To me that's the problem with the league.

Say Connor McDavid goes on the block today. I mean sure, he's an Oiler and sucks for that reason, but how many teams can even put together an offer that makes sense? For a lot of us it would mean a first and half of our best players and that might not even be all that attractive, let alone the holes in the roster after such a deal.

Then I look at Philadelphia with 10(!!) first round picks this year. I mean that's awesome, and one of them is mine for the time being, but I am not sure that's healthy for the league either. And I don't mean that as a shot on Joe Schum.

If it helps I'd be willing to give those picks to lesser teams. Then buy them back.

[Swayze11]

I am going to take a few teams in a dispersal draft just for an example (6F, 3D, 1G, 3AHL, 5ECHL) with the 3 teams mentioned as being stacked:

-----Wild-----
Tarasenko - Kuznetsov - Strome
Zucker - Stepan - Okposo

(Forwards made available: E.Staal, Sasha Barkov, Scott Hartnell, David Clarkson, Chris Kunitz, Artem Anisimov)

Karlson - Klingberg
Lindhom

(D-men made available: Dumba, Faulk, Lindholm, Reilly)

Lundqvist

(Goalies made available: Gibson, Vasilevski)

ECHL Keepers: Domi, Lindholm, Nylander, Jones, Drouin

(ECHL made available: Mantha, Wennberg, Strome, Ritchie, Draisaitl, etc, etc, TONS of great prospects)

----PENS-----
Kane - Seguin - Forsberg
Pacioretty - Mackinnon - Gallagher

(Forwards made available: Couture, Galchenyuk, Teravainen, Cullen, Jokinen)

Subban - Murray
Despres

(D-men made available: Petry, Beaulieu, Hainsey, Yemelin

Rask

(Goalies made available: Condon, Murray)

ECHL: McDavid, Perlini, Rychel, Nurse, Scherbak

(ECHL made available: McCarron, Morin, etc.)

---DUCKS---
Hall - Toews - Iginla
Gaudreau - Monahan - Saad

(Forwards made available: Backlund, Killorn, Bouma, Granlund)

Brodie - Doughty
Ekblad

(D-mean made available: Hamilton, Trouba, Volchenkov)

Price
(Goalies made available: Gustavvson)

Summary:
These teams are still stacked, will we have the exact same problem?
The above 3 teams will still get players they have "released" when it is their turn to draft - so releasing them isnt THAT big of a deal.

Lets not take the 3 "worst" teams based off currency score that Hesla did last year (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=145167) - may be outdated but I didn't want to pick the bottom 3 teams in the standings because it doesn't necessary mean they have the worst assets - the sim just hates them:
---FLAMES---
Silfverberg - Vermette - Callahan
Toffoli - Nash - Stempniak

(Forwards made available: TJ Galiardi, Steve Bernier, Matt cooke, Dustin Jeffery)

Wisniewski - Campbell
Greene

(D-men made available: Barret Jackman, Bortuzzo, Gilber, Olsen)

Lack

(Goalie made available: Ben Scrivens)

ECHL: Pick any 5

----BRUINS----
Grigorenko - Brouwer - Brown
Jagr - Kruger - Eaves

(Forwards made available: Pageau, Gaustad, Kovalchuk, Roy, Spaling)

Scuderi - Martin
Spurgon

(D-mean made available: Seidenberg, Greene)

Lehtonen
(Goalies made available: Enroth, Mazanec)

ECHL: Only has 5 prospect - would keep them all

----SABRES----
Pominville - Thornton - Foligno
Abdelkader - Bozak - Smith

(Forwards made available: Fehr, Matthias, Campbell, Larsson)

Bogosian - Ehrhoff
Yandle

(D-men made available: Cole, Jordan, Redmond)

Quick
(Goalie made available: Ramo)

ECHL: Pick 5

Summary:
They still get to keep their best assets, they just improve their team significantly with this draft. These top 6 forwards and top 3 D potentially get knocked down into bottom 6 and bottom 3 after the draft.

Overall, I am all for this dispersal draft but the biggest point to this is we need the asset rich teams to also be on board.

[Hanna Sniper]

I'll comment on a couple things

Re-draft
I think this is a poor solution. I say that with the understanding that you can take every player of my team and move them where ever you like. It DOESN'T fix anything it just resets the problem without fixing it. Any "stacked" team now will once again be a stacked team tomorrow

POW awards.
I have the most respect for those that did it. But i didn't participate on purpose because I didn't think it was fair... not saying the great GM that did it was unfair (stress that point) Rather then crying about it i stayed out of it and in my own way nominated Robyn Regehr for as many stupid things as I could.

Real problem is my eyes is that lack of community
There's always been a league made up of great traders, posters, and just plan hockey fans. I noticed a huge change in our league when he had a GM come through and low ball trade offers after trade offer (I'm noting about one specific former GM)... Since he had success (before being fired for trying to loose games) I noticed it was the new way of trading. It hasn't moved from that

There was no better moment for me in this league that when the Flames clinched a playoff spot in 2004 and celebrating for a few hours on MSN with the league. It's become an all for me league now.

There's no question I'm to blame for the lack of posting on the forum, I'm no where as creative as I once was but there's no belief that's it's going to add anything other then a few likes. You flip through the 1st page of this forum it doesn't send a message to new GM that this is something they have to jump on or they'll loose out

[Caged Great]

There is no way a full dispersal draft would actually solve anything long term. All it would do it take a small handful of guys off teams and re-arrange them. How would one determine the order of it. Can't go by standings because some of the asset rich teams are in the bottom half.

Unless you basically actively rip apart teams like Anaheim, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, etc and take our teams back to a state mine was in 3 years ago, that would be the only way you could spread the wealth out. That isn't fair to their teams either.

The only way that I could see a "dispersal" draft working is that if players over X age are all suddenly free agents and teams that are deemed deep are not allowed to sign any of the new free agents for X # of rounds, so that basically all that is left to them are the 3rd/4th line guys. That way the more veteran talent is spread out while the teams that do have a lot of assets (the elite teams) will still have assets but their NHL team will suck unless they make trades.

I still would not be in favour of it though and I don't think any team's AHL/ECHL squads should be touched because most teams have a greater connection with the kids than the NHL squad (My AHL/ECHL is crap outside of a handful of guys, so it's not like I'm holding a dozen 1sts down there).

[Swayze11]

The issue with that CG is how do you determine what teams are "deemed deep"? When you bring opinion into things, it doesn't go well.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

The issue with that CG is how do you determine what teams are "deemed deep"? When you bring opinion into things, it doesn't go well.

That's the problem. If you look at my team, it is good in the standings and I do have a handful of good young players especially at the NHL level. However, outside of Senyshin, Panarin, and Montour, my AHL/ECHL is stocked with mostly depth prospects and long shots.

A team like Pittsburgh is in the bottom half of the standings, and yet has a large amount of talent at all levels.

If you say cut all the guys over 28 from my team for a dispersal draft, I'm basically screwed for 2-3 years.

If you cut all the 28+ guys from Pittsburgh they lose Rask, Emelin, Hainsey, Cullen and Olli Jokinen. A goalie and 4 nothings.

It is hard to do a reset in any fashion without screwing most teams.

[Swayze11]

Right, which is why everyone should fall under the same rules in the dispersal draft. Protect X fowards, X d-men, X goalies, X prospects and the dispersal draft starts. It is the most fair to everyone.

Again, the issue here is the rich teams need to be on board. 90% of the rest of the league are on board for this I imagine because they improve their team significantly.

[KevanGuy]

I wouldn't be on board for any type of dispersal draft. I mostly share Grants feeling about it. The imbalance would just happen again because it is tied to the amount of time a GM spends on their team. Changing the rules is the only way to deal with the talent balance issue, which I'm personally not that concerned about.

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

I wouldn't be on board for any type of dispersal draft. I mostly share Grants feeling about it. The imbalance would just happen again because it is tied to the amount of time a GM spends on their team. Changing the rules is the only way to deal with the talent balance issue, which I'm personally not that concerned about.

He said in his above post he is open to a dispersal draft... I assume you meant you are not on board with a re-draft, right?

[dsavillian]

It's amazing at how similar this is to political arguments.

I'm just waiting on the libertarian GM type to come in and say "I should be free to play by my own rules"

[devo22]

Only on my phone right now and hammered already, so it's better if I post my thoughts tomorrow.

[droopydrew19]

Every district er team sends their best forward and dman into the Abyss.

2 round draft based on standings.... done...