2015/2016 Barclays Premier League Thread

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

I dont know, Swansea at the moment, Chelsea and Liverpool...thats 9 points there. Maybe 10 if you assume that United dont score any goals.

Everton...they're all over the place. If they poison Lukaku's food that could be 1-3 points.

Its doable.

Think Chelsea is still an easy mark for 3 points? They pulled it off last weekend and in Europe this week and made it look pretty easy. I know those aren't top tier squads, but maybe that confidence is coming back and they're about to right the ship?

I hope not and hope that they get beat badly at White Hart Lane this weekend. Thing is Spurs play today in Azerbaijan and are flying home from that match overnight, essentially. So to play again in two days kind of makes me worry about that one.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

sure but if you put Southampton in the conversation for management and academies then Leicester City is in the same conversation. Their Thai Owner has totally turned the team around while keeping with team history and letting the soccer people do their jobs.

But Southampton is special because of their youth setup. It's pretty ridiculous, their academy just keeps producing great first team players. In that regard they're probably the best in Europe right now beside Schalke IMO.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Talk to me in the new year.

Nov 28, Manchester United
Dec 5, Swansea
Dec 14, Chelsea
Dec 19, Everton
Dec 26, Liverpool
Dec 29, Manchester City

In all seriousness though, there is no team in England right now that inspires any terror.

United cant score, Swansea, Chelsea and Everton fluctuate from good to straight-up terrible, no one knows what the hell is going on with Liverpool and City. City.

One would think with Chelsea defecating their own sleeping arrangements that this should be City's year but they've laid some inexplicable stinkers of their own.

Its really an open season on the title, I could see Arsenal, United or even Spurs in there.

But in Leicester's defence, they're taking a page out of Fergie's book, the key to winning the league is in harvesting the lower-end teams for points. Taking wins and not draws.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

Think Chelsea is still an easy mark for 3 points? They pulled it off last weekend and in Europe this week and made it look pretty easy. I know those aren't top tier squads, but maybe that confidence is coming back and they're about to right the ship?

I hope not and hope that they get beat badly at White Hart Lane this weekend. Thing is Spurs play today in Azerbaijan and are flying home from that match overnight, essentially. So to play again in two days kind of makes me worry about that one.

I was being a bit sarcastic but Chelsea is far from out of the woods yet. They barely eked out that 1-0 last week against Norwich and you cant take much out of a game against Tel-Aviv.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Chelsea's defense is too atrocious to trust them. They obviously won't be in the relegation race but I can't see them finish much higher than 7th/8th unless they get some top defenders in the January window.

[devo22]

Generally I think the league's overall strength is second to none right now. Everybody can beat everybody and, unlike in Germany and Spain, weaker teams go in flying vs the top teams and never roll over and die.

But it's true, the strength at the top is not very high at the moment and there's no team that could compete with the best teams in Europe right now. I think it's just a phase though, those things always fluctuate. Not long ago, England terrorised European football with having 3 semifinalists every year while Bayern was in no-mans land and Real couldn't get out of the last 16. I'm sure it'll turn around for England soon, also thanks to the financial muscle.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by devo22

Generally I think the league's overall strength is second to none right now. Everybody can beat everybody and, unlike in Germany and Spain, weaker teams go in flying vs the top teams and never roll over and die.

But it's true, the strength at the top is not very high at the moment and there's no team that could compete with the best teams in Europe right now. I think it's just a phase though, those things always fluctuate. Not long ago, England terrorised European football with having 3 semifinalists every year while Bayern was in no-mans land and Real couldn't get out of the last 16. I'm sure it'll turn around for England soon, also thanks to the financial muscle.

I agree with you except for a few things, the problem isnt the Financial muscle its the overall composition.

England isnt developing its own players. Thats the first problem.

From there though its overall costs that have gotten out of control. The EPL is easily the richest league in the world but notice that the average wages are getting out of control and every time an English team is in for a player they're paying £7+M more in transfer fees?

I was reading a few days ago about Douglas Costa. Bayern snagged him for 30M Euro but and English team was in on him and their cost was £40M. Thats a HUGE difference, you'd have to think that the tipping point was either the team, the city or the wages but still.

It costs a lot more for an English team to load up, especially because their average weekly wages are higher especially on top clubs and they dont develop their own talent to fill out roster spots.

I do agree that its a cycle, but at the moment you have to wonder when its going to come around because Bayern have been a top club for almost a decade now with Real and Barca even longer than that.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

sure but if you put Southampton in the conversation for management and academies then Leicester City is in the same conversation. Their Thai Owner has totally turned the team around while keeping with team history and letting the soccer people do their jobs.

I'm sharing in devo22's scepticism here, is Leicester's academy setup at the same level of Southampton's? Southampton's academy was chugging along before they even returned to the Premier League producing the likes of Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott.

Originally Posted by Locke

In all seriousness though, there is no team in England right now that inspires any terror.

Rubbish. The effects of watching Arsenal trying to hold a one-nil lead during the last 10 minutes makes ISIS green with envy.

[Locke]

Roy Keane taking up his favourite hobby again.

Roy Keane has launched a scathing attack on Wayne Rooney, declaring that the Manchester United captain is not in the right physical or mental shape.

"Mentally he doesn't look sharp, physically he doesn't look in a great shape. He has to have a look at himself," Keane said on ITV.

Rooney was filmed slapping wrestler Wade Barrett at a recent WWE event, and Keane said he should not have been there.

The Republic of Ireland assistant manager added: "I always question certain players -- what are they doing off the field? I saw Wayne last week slapping a wrestler, and I'm thinking: 'Why is he getting involved in all that nonsense?'

http://www.espnfc.us/manchester-unit...hape-roy-keane

I dont know anything about the 'slapping a wrestler' thing but I presume that was a bit of fun/marketing?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Locke

every time an English team is in for a player they're paying £7+M more in transfer fees?

of course, that's just the price they have to pay for the TV deal. I remember van Gaal and Woodward this summer when both basically said "when United want to sign a player, the other club increases the price significantly just because it's United". And that's going to be something that all PL clubs will have to deal with in the future ... other clubs know that the English clubs have a lot of money and therefore they'll ask for more. That's why I always have to laugh when the smaller German clubs moan about the financial power of the PL, when that's actually a huge chance for them. Just look at what Mainz and Hannover have got from Leicester and Stoke for bang average players like Okazaki and Joselu. Crazy stuff.

Originally Posted by Locke

I do agree that its a cycle, but at the moment you have to wonder when its going to come around because Bayern have been a top club for almost a decade now with Real and Barca even longer than that.

nah see, this is when perception is skewed by recent results. Bayern didn't even reach the Champions League only 7 years ago and in the Klinsmann era they had terrible players like Oddo, Lell, Ottl ... as starters! They were absolutely slaughtered by Barcelona back then and they weren't even close to being a "top club". That was 6 years ago. England has even had a CL winner and another finalist since then, so the PLs drought in the CL hasn't been that long.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by devo22

it doesn't matter how hard I try ... I simply can't manage to dislike the guy.

I know. I resent him because I can't hate him.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Locke

England isnt developing its own players. Thats the first problem.

It costs a lot more for an English team to load up, especially because their average weekly wages are higher especially on top clubs and they dont develop their own talent to fill out roster spots.

I don't buy into that theory at all.

I believe it's more of a case that they don't get a decent look in at most clubs at the expense of average foreign players.

It's only a generation ago that English clubs (Liverpool/Villa/Forest absolutely dominated Europe based on homegrown and Scottish talent. There's a lot of very 'average' foreign players out there that imo are taking up places that home grown talent could do just as easily.

Also ... football is strange in that clubs will spend millions on proven average. Take for example Cleverley. A proven very average, safe non creative player. Yet, instead of taking a risk and giving someone from the academy or another youngster a crack clubs will spend $ on him because he is safe.

I think its a case of the manager turnover being so quick nowadays that there is little time to risk the young uns at the expense of jobs.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bagor

I don't buy into that theory at all.

I believe it's more of a case that they don't get a decent look in at most clubs at the expense of average foreign players.

It's only a generation ago that English clubs (Liverpool/Villa/Forest absolutely dominated Europe based on homegrown and Scottish talent. There's a lot of very 'average' foreign players out there that imo are taking up places that home grown talent could do just as easily.

Also ... football is strange in that clubs will spend millions on proven average. Take for example Cleverley. A proven very average, safe non creative player. Yet, instead of taking a risk and giving someone from the academy or another youngster a crack clubs will spend $ on him because he is safe.

I think its a case of the manager turnover being so quick nowadays that there is little time to risk the young uns at the expense of jobs.

Thats a very sound theory and I agree with a lot of it. But whether they develop the talent and it never sees the light of day the outcome is the same.

They spend money on 'safe average' which is a great term by the way, I like it, instead of taking a risk and playing some emerging talent.

Again, the result is the same, it costs a lot to field an even average squad.

[GirlySports]

Also teams see a player have a spark at a Euro or World Cup then sign him when really he's mediocre inconsistent, the opposite of safe average. A guy having a nice run in a 5 match tournament is different then a 50 match season. The homegrown guy would be much better.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Locke

I agree with you except for a few things, the problem isnt the Financial muscle its the overall composition.

England isnt developing its own players. Thats the first problem.

Disagree with the bolded part, I think these things are cyclical and this generation of 18-24 year olds are going to disprove that

good piece here http://www.espnfc.us/team/england/44...new-generation

But to sum it up basically players born in the 81-89 range who would now be 'in their prime'

England have 2 top players in Rooney and Hart, it's essentially a lost generation outside of that. The one before it produced a huge amount of talent that underachieved internationally, a lot to do with personal decisions.

But the 1990-97 range of players who are just pushing through now look to have a ton of potential

Chris Smalling, Daniel Sturridge, Theo Walcott, Danny Welbeck, Jordan Henderson, Nathaniel Clyne, Phil Jones, Jack Wilshere, Harry Kane, Ross Barkley, Jack Butland, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, John Stones, Raheem Sterling, Eric Dier, Luke Shaw and Dele Alli

In that list I think you have a lot of very good players and more than a few with definite potential to be some of the best at their position in the world

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Disagree with the bolded part, I think these things are cyclical and this generation of 18-24 year olds are going to disprove that

good piece here http://www.espnfc.us/team/england/44...new-generation

But to sum it up basically players born in the 81-89 range who would now be 'in their prime'

England have 2 top players in Rooney and Hart, it's essentially a lost generation outside of that. The one before it produced a huge amount of talent that underachieved internationally, a lot to do with personal decisions.

But the 1990-97 range of players who are just pushing through now look to have a ton of potential



In that list I think you have a lot of very good players and more than a few with definite potential to be some of the best at their position in the world

Great post.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Disagree with the bolded part, I think these things are cyclical and this generation of 18-24 year olds are going to disprove that

But the 1990-97 range of players who are just pushing through now look to have a ton of potential

In that list I think you have a lot of very good players and more than a few with definite potential to be some of the best at their position in the world

I'll agree with a ton of 'very good' players but which of those players is going to be 'the best in the world at their position?'

The problem is that clubs buy foreign players to take these guys' positions and English players dont go anywhere else to play.

How many English players are plying their trade in Italy, Spain or Germany?

Do you think from an international perspective any of those players are going to accomplish anything during their careers?

[d_phaneuf]

Outside of Neymar is there another 22 or 23 year old scoring better than Kane's pace the last 12 months in the top leagues in Europe?

Stones is widely regarded as one of the best young CB's in the world, Pique put him in his best world XI so far this season last month

I'd add Shaw, Barkley, Alli, and Sterling as well

is it likely they all reach that no but that list is just as strong as any other country that could be put forth at this point, and it shows with how the youth set up has been doing the last few years

[d_phaneuf]

the players playing in Italy/Spain/Germany argument is silly to me

how many world class players are in Italy at the moment? how many are in Germany outside of Bayern (except Reus), how many are in Spain outside the top 3 clubs?

[Senator Clay Davis]

What a finish between Everton and Bournemouth. Bouremouth comes back from 2-0, Everton gets the 95th minute goal but wasted time after celebrating (and their fans came on the pitch too...), Bournemouth scores in the 98th to draw.