[Rumour] Travis Hamonic requests trade. Western Canada preferred destination

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Set aside personal feelings towards the players and just look objectively:

25 year old top-4 dman who is trending upwards signed for $3.8milAAV

32 year old top-4 dman who is trending downwards (I know it's a small sample size, but there's more evidence to suggest a downwards trend than even remaining at the same level) signed for $6.75milAAV on a contract that doesn't kick in until next year when he's 33 and lasts until he's 39.

I know Gio is our captain and all, but strictly as a hockey move I think it's a no-brainer.

(Remember, I know he has more value than just his hockey skills and I love Gio, just playing devils advocate here)

This has nothing to do with feelings for players. This has more to do with the "what have you done for me lately" mentality. There have been posters in here that are willing to trade both Gio and Hamilton based off their 21 games this year.

The Gio logic has some merit but the fact many say a 1 for 1 swap is fair blows my mind. Hamonic is more of a shutdown type where Gio is that 2 way Dman teams want. I don't see any situation where Flames management actually considers trading Gio but if they did trade him for Hamonic I expect to get Strome in that deal as well.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Just to play devils advocate...

How do you know Treliving hasn't offered Gio and the Isles are the ones who won't do it? That, to me, is also entirely possible.

By that logic, how do we know that the pens haven't offered Crosby for Raymond and the Flames said no and won't do it? Isn't anything possible?

You keep saying Gio is a top 4 and I think the only reason you're saying that is because you're being very nearsighted about things. For the past couple of years Gio has been our #1 guy and now that he's had a bad 20 games he's slid down and is only "top 4". I think you have to take a lot of things into consideration before you take Gio away from that #1 spot; he's still battling an injury, the entire team is bad, he can't play the same game because of his injury, the team isn't working as hard....there are a lot of things to consider before you can say he isn't a #1 guy and I think GM's know this too. Hamonic may get the most minutes on the team but is he really a legit #1 guy? Hamonic is a really got top 4 guy and I say top 4 because I don't think he'd be on the top pairing in Calgary. Even though Gio is playing bad, I"m willing to bet that 29 other teams would love to have him on their team.

The over valuing of Hamonic has to cool off a bit around here.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The Flames have the #1, #2 and #3 positions basically locked up for the next 5 years barring injury or sudden regression.

Over the next 18 months, the Flames will have to address the #4, 5 and 6. You can likely fill one or two of those spots internally through the kids. After that though, you will need a transitional player or two.

If a deal makes sense to get Hamonic to become the #4, that's fine and should be done. If the deal does not work, then target another guy with a similar pedigree as either Hamilton, Leddy or Hamonic. A young guy needing a change of scenery. A guy like Cam Fowler might be someone that makes sense. There are plenty of guys out there, just depends if the cost is something manageable.

Just depends on who/what is out there.

This is exactly right.

Hamonic would make a phenomenal #4 on the Flames, but there's no reason to move any of Hamilton, Brodie, or Giordano to do it. We've got Culkin and Kulak who have both given us reason to believe they can be at least bottom-pairing guys in the NHL. In addition there are always a couple of #6/7 veterans available for cheap in mid-July.

There's also Hickey, Andersson, and Kylington already in our system. It's no great stretch to imagine any one of them ending up as a #4 guy, and indeed many reasons to hope they all might be more than that.

In addition there are players like Kulikov, Shattenkirk, Hedman, and L. Schenn, coming up as UFA's in the next two seasons as well as a slew of guys like Krug, Cowan, Spurgeon, Barrie, Vatanen, and Ristolainen, not to mention top-flight guys like Jones and Ekblad who'll hit RFA soon.

Getting RFAs is obviously unlikely, but we managed to snag Hamilton, and I bet everyone would have laughed their heads off at the idea of him being traded at this time last year.

Hamonic would be pretty much the perfect guy to add to our D right now, but if you figure you can get someone who's 90% of what Hamonic would add without spending a nickel in assets, that's obviously the way to go.

[Erick Estrada]

I get that he's a good player but I have heard Hamonic's name mentioned at this site <5 times ever and all of a sudden we have a 30 page thread that's at the top of the forum every day. Good player but not remotely close to worth all the hype he's getting over the past few weeks.

[StrykerSteve]

I'd hazard a guess that the only way you're prying this guy out of Brooklyn is by offering Brodie.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

I'd hazard a guess that the only way you're prying this guy out of Brooklyn is by offering Brodie.

If that's what they want they might as well just take him off the market since no one is going to pay anything like that.

[sureLoss]

The thing that makes Hamonic so valuable to the Flames is that he is a top 4 defenceman that can handle top pairing role. All for the cap hit of $3.857 million for this season and the next 4.

That cap hit for performance ratio will be extremely valuable moving forward with the impending Gaudreau, Monahan, and Bennett extensions on the horizon.

You are unlikely to get anyone on the UFA market capable with similar age range for that friendly a cap hit unless you get lucky with a reclamation project or a player at the end of their hockey career.

Any team willing to get rid of an RFA that is capable of that is because they can't afford his next contract and that player will likely have a higher cap hit.

Should the Flames trade Gio, Hamilton or Brodie for him. No, not unless the Isles are adding some significant assets the Flames can use to address other areas of weakness.

But the Flames should be looking at moving assets other than core players for this guy.

Yes some are overrating him, but Hamonic would be an extremely good add for the Flames.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

I'd hazard a guess that the only way you're prying this guy out of Brooklyn is by offering Brodie.

So the team who has the player that has asked for the trade and given a list of 3-4 teams he will go to is somehow going to get the better player in return?

It doesn't work like that. If a player demands a trade, it becomes public, and the list of teams is limited, that team is going to lose the trade 99% of the time.

From what has been mentioned about Calgary recently is their best hopes at getting Hamonic are a 3 team trade. For instance there are rumors the Ducks are in the mix yet reports that LA was told no. That doesn't make any sense. Perhaps the Ducks could be involved as a third team as they could be looking for help up front. Not sure the Flames are the fit to help but the Oilers could be?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The thing that makes Hamonic so valuable to the Flames is that he is a top 4 defenceman that can handle top pairing role. All for the cap hit of $3.857 million for this season and the next 4.

That cap hit for performance ratio will be extremely valuable moving forward with the impending Gaudreau, Monahan, and Bennett extensions on the horizon.

You are unlikely to get anyone on the UFA market capable with similar age range for that friendly a cap hit unless you get lucky with a reclamation project or a player at the end of their hockey career.

Any team willing to get rid of an RFA that is capable of that is because they can't afford his next contract and that player will likely have a higher cap hit.

Should the Flames trade Gio, Hamilton or Brodie for him. No, not unless the Isles are adding some significant assets the Flames can use to address other areas of weakness.

But the Flames should be looking at moving assets other than core players for this guy.

Yes some are overrating him, but Hamonic would be an extremely good add for the Flames.

Great post.

The cap hit is what makes it tolerable to me to trade Giordano for Hamonic even though Giordano is the better all-around defender right now. Next year, Giordano will have twice the cap hit of Hamonic.

That extra $3.5-4 million bucks is extremely valuable.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The thing that makes Hamonic so valuable to the Flames is that he is a top 4 defenceman that can handle top pairing role. All for the cap hit of $3.857 million for this season and the next 4.

That cap hit for performance ratio will be extremely valuable moving forward with the impending Gaudreau, Monahan, and Bennett extensions on the horizon.

You are unlikely to get anyone on the UFA market capable with similar age range for that friendly a cap hit unless you get lucky with a reclamation project or a player at the end of their hockey career.

Any team willing to get rid of an RFA that is capable of that is because they can't afford his next contract and that player will likely have a higher cap hit.

Should the Flames trade Gio, Hamilton or Brodie for him. No, not unless the Isles are adding some significant assets the Flames can use to address other areas of weakness.

But the Flames should be looking at moving assets other than core players for this guy.

Yes some are overrating him, but Hamonic would be an extremely good add for the Flames.

It's kind of a moot point of how valuable his cap hit would be as the Flames made their bed with the Giordano and Hamilton contracts. If Treliving was really worried about needing cap room he probably would have been a little more cautious handing over a 6x6 to a guy that's going to be 33 when the contract kicks in.

There's simply no way a deal can get done between these teams unless Giordano is going back the other way. I certainly wouldn't trade Hamilton for Hamonic.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Just to play devils advocate...

How do you know Treliving hasn't offered Gio and the Isles are the ones who won't do it? That, to me, is also entirely possible.

Some things you just know. This, I know.

And what if Hamonic comes here and sucks for his first 20 games? Then what? We're stuck in the same rut as we are with Hamilton? When will the cycle end? How do we know with 100% certainty that Hamonic is the ''perfect'' fit. The majority of us didn't even know the guys' name a week ago. Hamilton seemed like the perfect fit and people were ready to trade him away by game 7.

This is why the GM runs the show and not any of us. This team would be a perennial 30th place team with some of the suggestions that go on around here. Especially so early into a season.

The Flames made a huge investment in Hamilton. His upside is significantly higher then Hamonic. He's the young 22 year old RHD we all craved in the summer. We got him for a steal. But let's trade him away after 20 games for a guy barely any of us knew a week ago because ''bla bla bla cap hit''.

No.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's kind of a moot point of how valuable his cap hit would be as the Flames made their bed with the Giordano and Hamilton contracts. If Treliving was really worried about needing cap room he probably would have been a little more cautious handing over a 6x6 to a guy that's going to be 33 when the contract kicks in.
.

Incredibly asinine thing to say cap space is moot, regardless of what Treliving has done in the past and given this team's cap situation going forward.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Just to play devils advocate...

How do you know Treliving hasn't offered Gio and the Isles are the ones who won't do it? That, to me, is also entirely possible.

Given Gio's struggles and the fact that that contract looks absolutely frightening it sounds like a great idea for the Flames and I'm sure it's been at least discussed but the optics are pretty bad. I'm sure when Giordano signed that deal he was under the belief he would remain a Flame for the duration. I'm pretty sure he would have rather opted for free agency than being traded to that organization. The Flames would end up looking pretty greasy here as Gio would get screwed especially if he's not keen to play the next six seasons in that market.

I still do it if I'm Treliving as it's not often you get the opportunity to correct a mistake before the damage is done and that contract is going to hamstring this team and could play a role in the GM losing his job. At the end of the day a GM still has to do moves in the best interest of the organization even if they may get some blood on his hands.

[Huntingwhale]

I can't wait until Gio puts together a string of 2 weeks of solid play and all this talk of trading him can stop.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Incredibly asinine thing to say cap space is moot, regardless of what Treliving has done in the past and given this team's cap situation going forward.

You can't say on one hand that you absolutely need that cap friendly deal to sign guys like Gadreau, Monahan, Bennett, etc after you just handed over over $12 million a season to two defenseman like money was burning a hole in your pocket. Hamonic's cap hit is moot because the deal won't be able to get done unless Gio is going the other way. Russel, Smid, Wideman, etc aren't going to get this done.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You can't say on one hand that you absolutely need that cap friendly deal to sign guys like Gadreau, Monahan, Bennett, etc after you just handed over over $12 million a season to two defenseman like money was burning a hole in your pocket. Hamonic's cap hit is moot because the deal won't be able to get done unless Gio is going the other way. Russel, Smid, Wideman, etc aren't going to get this done.

I never said you needed a cap friendly deal to sign Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett etc.

My point was a cap friendly deal would help the Flames out immensely given their upcoming contracts.

Just because Treliving signed some defenceman to large contracts doesn't make getting players on cap friendly deals moot, in fact it makes it more important than ever.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I can't wait until Gio puts together a string of 2 weeks of solid play and all this talk of trading him can stop.

That would be great for the team if he puts together a few weeks of good play but the guy is still playing under his existing deal and the big contract doesn't even kick in until next year. For the record I was of the opinion they never should have resigned him if they couldn't get the term below 5 years. I would have been fine with the team trading him and fetching young assets.

It's apparent he had his career season last year and while I expect him to be better this season I don't ever expect him to be close to that season and as good of a leader as he is you have to put a price on that and $6 million a season for leadership skills it too much.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I never said you needed a cap friendly deal to sign Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett etc.

My point was a cap friendly deal would help the Flames out immensely given their upcoming contracts.

Sure it would most of all because Treliving put the team in a bind with the Giordano deal in the first place. I can understand the Hamilton deal because you are paying for now and the future but with Gio the returns are going to be diminishing. Hamonic's deal would be great for the Flames but the Isles aren't going to give him to the Flames for our junk like Wiedmen or Backlund.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sure it would most of all because Treliving put the team in a bind with the Giordano deal in the first place. I can understand the Hamilton deal because you are paying for now and the future but with Gio the returns are going to be diminishing. Hamonic's deal would be great for the Flames but the Isles aren't going to give him to the Flames for our junk like Wiedmen or Backlund.

Treliving doesn't have a plethora of options with the Giordano signing at the time of negotiation. Maybe he can sign for a year less but with more money, or maybe he signs for a year more but with less money but the market has a value for Giordano that Treliving can't deviate too much from.

That means that he signs Giordano to roughly the value of that contract he gave him or he doesn't sign Giordano. Those are his two options. So was he really supposed to not sign Giordano? There was nobody really waiting in the wings to replace him. You typically go with what you got, especially with a player logging that much ice time.

But now the circumstances have changed. There is a potential replacement, or a suitable option from a roster quality/cap hit perspective. That option was not available to Treliving when he signed the contract with Giordano. So Treliving isn't shackled to Giordano because he signed him to a contract in the past now with changing contexts in the present. That's just a strange and dumb argument to make.

[Vinny01]

So 20 games where he is not a top 5 Dman in the game we have concluded Gio's contract an albatross and should move him while we can?