[Rumour] Travis Hamonic requests trade. Western Canada preferred destination

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

He still requested the trade with limited destinations.
Maybe over a barrel is a little much, but trade value has been reduced. The longer this takes to play out, the more so.

This is absolutely an issue. You don't need to bid as hard if there is reduced competition for the player you want.

The Loungo to Florida trade is probably as much stupidity as the entire league knowing Loungo was extremely selective of where he was going to go.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by kirant

This is absolutely an issue. You don't need to bid as hard if there is reduced competition for the player you want.

The Loungo to Florida trade is probably as much stupidity as the entire league knowing Loungo was extremely selective of where he was going to go.

As far as I know, Hamonic doesn't have an NTC. So while the Islanders are trying to accomadate him, they have no obligation to. They can trade him where ever for however much. Some teams may be offering them more because they know it will take more for them to trade him to their market.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

It is far fetched for obvious reasons. I don't see how the Flames would consider moving their captain after all the good things they said about him. Also the Islanders are adding a lot if it happened

Give me a break, Wayne Gretzky was traded. Gio is a great person and sometimes a great player but he's been pretty inconsistent the last 3 years after injuries and has been injured pretty much a large chunk his entire career. We can't afford to always wait 40 games before he gets on track. He was real bad after an injury 2 years ago and has been pretty bad this season.

It might not be the popular decision but sometimes you need to make tough decisions. Hamonic would be a great addition and plus we get some cap relief and maybe a nice draft pick.

That cap space might be the difference between being able to sign another player as well. And besides Gio is 32 like I mentioned and plays hard minutes so his body is taking a beating.

Love Gio and would gladly eat my words but I would welcome a trade any day.

We hung on to Iginla far too long and got zero return. We have a chance to get a good d-man who is only 25 and probably a first or second rounder.

[Calgary4LIfe]

No team is really going to trade for Harmonic if they aren't in his list of teams. They would just be acquiring a problem who they would then have to trade again.

As for the Flames, I would hope that Treliving is definitely in on this if for nothing else than to just help drive up the price. Flames don't want a top-pairing defencemen to be had for a bargain to one of their rivals. I doubt Calgary gets him - price will be high, and need on the Flames as compared to other teams is definitely lower - but Treliving better be helping to drive up the price.

[Gaudfather]

Burke and Treliving are a good combination of hockey smarts and experience. They have a plan for making this team relevant again. Gio is clearly the leader of this group and you don't fool around with your leadership. There may be moves that Treliving would make to further improve our d- core, but that won't involve moving Gio, Brodie or Hamilton.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by MattyC

As far as I know, Hamonic doesn't have an NTC. So while the Islanders are trying to accomadate him, they have no obligation to. They can trade him where ever for however much. Some teams may be offering them more because they know it will take more for them to trade him to their market.

You're correct. I was using the Loungo trade as an extreme example of how player requests affect their value. The Islanders are under no obligation to trade him but the knowledge that he has specific desires to go to Western Canada play into the context of the trade and affect his value to other teams; some teams might not feel they have the ability to retain him after his contract given that it's now known he has a desire to play near home. Or some of the more pessimistic GMs might think he's going to demand a second trade and put them in a similar situation.

[Poe969]

As mentioned, the flames don't need to have a better offer than every team, just better than a few teams. A lot of teams won't trade for him because he'll ask for a trade from there too. I still think there's a good chance we get him.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Give me a break, Wayne Gretzky was traded. Gio is a great person and sometimes a great player but he's been pretty inconsistent the last 3 years after injuries and has been injured pretty much a large chunk his entire career. We can't afford to always wait 40 games before he gets on track. He was real bad after an injury 2 years ago and has been pretty bad this season.

It might not be the popular decision but sometimes you need to make tough decisions. Hamonic would be a great addition and plus we get some cap relief and maybe a nice draft pick.

That cap space might be the difference between being able to sign another player as well. And besides Gio is 32 like I mentioned and plays hard minutes so his body is taking a beating.

Love Gio and would gladly eat my words but I would welcome a trade any day.

We hung on to Iginla far too long and got zero return. We have a chance to get a good d-man who is only 25 and probably a first or second rounder.

Look man I get it but seriously be real. Do you see an organization trading a player they have gone outnofnthe or way to praise as one of the key components of this team turning it around quicker than expected. Gio was the only player mentioned by name when Burke gives credit to the organizational turn around (along with Hartley, Treliving, Feaster).

When he was re-signed the emphasis on how he is the pulse of the team was repeated over and over by the GM. Do you truly think they are going to move him before that contract kicks in? What does that say to other players? Gio chose not to go to free agency because he wanted to remain here but a couple disappointing months he is shipped across the continent.

The trade one for one is a huge downgrade for the Flames as the Hamonic hype train is chugging full steam. If the Islanders sweetened the pot I would be all for the trade but I have little doubt Management and ownership would. Indont disagree that it might not be the worst move for the organization but do not see the team doing it for many reasons optics being an obvious one.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Poe969

As mentioned, the flames don't need to have a better offer than every team, just better than a few teams. A lot of teams won't trade for him because he'll ask for a trade from there too. I still think there's a good chance we get him.

Earliest I see this trade is the deadline but I think it drags to the draft where teams have maximum flexibility

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Give me a break, Wayne Gretzky was traded.

Can we retire that particular bit of historical trivia? It has absolutely no bearing on today's game.

Gretzky wasn't traded, he was sold, because Peter Pocklington was broke. The cash he received in the deal was enough to pay the Oilers' entire roster for three years.

Nowadays, of course, you can't trade players for cash. But if you could, the equivalent to the Gretzky trade would be a cash payment of about $200 million, plus players and picks. There's a reason why you so seldom see trades involving top-tier stars with long-term contracts.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Can we retire that particular bit of historical trivia? It has absolutely no bearing on today's game.

Gretzky wasn't traded, he was sold, because Peter Pocklington was broke. The cash he received in the deal was enough to pay the Oilers' entire roster for three years.

Nowadays, of course, you can't trade players for cash. But if you could, the equivalent to the Gretzky trade would be a cash payment of about $200 million, plus players and picks. There's a reason why you so seldom see trades involving top-tier stars with long-term contracts.

I was just about to type this exact comment, I totally agree that people should just stop saying if Gretzky can be traded, anyone can.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Can we retire that particular bit of historical trivia? It has absolutely no bearing on today's game.

Gretzky wasn't traded, he was sold, because Peter Pocklington was broke. The cash he received in the deal was enough to pay the Oilers' entire roster for three years.

Nowadays, of course, you can't trade players for cash. But if you could, the equivalent to the Gretzky trade would be a cash payment of about $200 million, plus players and picks. There's a reason why you so seldom see trades involving top-tier stars with long-term contracts.

Fair enough. I still think it makes total sense to trade Giordano. It's not like he's some young superstar. He's probably 3 years away from being a 5th/6th d-man. D-men aren't usually elite at 35.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Fair enough. I still think it makes total sense to trade Giordano. It's not like he's some young superstar. He's probably 3 years away from being a 5th/6th d-man. D-men aren't usually elite at 35.

That's true, and the idea should be discussed on its merits.

I would point out, though, that the reason D-men aren't usually elite at 35 is that they aren't usually elite at any age. Elite blueliners are fairly rare. Defencemen who are elite at any point in their careers are usually still pretty good at 35, barring massive injury. The really steep drop-off happens after that age.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's true, and the idea should be discussed on its merits.

I would point out, though, that the reason D-men aren't usually elite at 35 is that they aren't usually elite at any age. Elite blueliners are fairly rare. Defencemen who are elite at any point in their careers are usually still pretty good at 35, barring massive injury. The really steep drop-off happens after that age.

Players typically are also not traded too often before their contract extension kicks in. I think the optics make the trade unrealistic but 1 for 1 it is not a fair deal the Islanders add

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Can we retire that particular bit of historical trivia? It has absolutely no bearing on today's game.

Gretzky wasn't traded, he was sold, because Peter Pocklington was broke. The cash he received in the deal was enough to pay the Oilers' entire roster for three years.

Nowadays, of course, you can't trade players for cash. But if you could, the equivalent to the Gretzky trade would be a cash payment of about $200 million, plus players and picks. There's a reason why you so seldom see trades involving top-tier stars with long-term contracts.

The new saying should be "if David Clarkson and his contract can be traded, anyone can be traded"

[kyuss275]

I'll start off saying i highly doubt the flames would trade Gio before his contract kicks in. That said , even if the flames offered Gio for Hamonic would the Isles even do that trade? They already have their captain and are paying him for it. I'm not saying having more leadership would be a bad thing, but IMO the reason the flames gave Gio the term and $'s was because he is the captain going forward. Have to think he got an extra year of term and some money because he is the captain going forward. Plus as much as i like that the flames gave Gio an extension, i am no fool. The last couple of years of that contract are going to hurt.

[driveway]

There is no way the Flames should trade Hamilton for Hamonic.

Outside of the start of this year with the Flames, Hamilton has been a significantly better player than Hamonic, both offensively and defensively. And he's been much better than Hamonic defensively.

Between 2012-13 and 2014-15 here's a comparison between the two, stats are for 5v5 play, score adjusted from war-on-ice.


_________GP___CF%____CF%Rel___FF%____FF%rel___SCF%____HSCF%__TOI/Gm___G___A___PT
Hamilton_178__56.37___3.45___55.01___2.81____55.85____52.65___15.76___10__40__50
Hamonic__188__49.73__-2.10___50.64__-1.78____49.87____52.11___18.47___7___35__42


So here's an almost 200 game sample where Hamilton has significantly outperformed Hamonic on both sides of the puck. It's worth pointing out that Hamonic was 22-24 years old for the seasons covered by this sample and had 40 games of AHL experience and 134 games of NHL experience, while Hamilton was 19-21 years old and coming straight out of Junior. The numbers favour Hamilton even more if you compare them over their age 19-21 seasons.

If the Flames were to move Hamilton for Hamonic straight-up based on a 20-game sample of Hamilton's play, both Burke and Treleving should be fired on the spot. If the Isles want Hamilton for Hamonic, they're going to need to throw in substantial assets to make it worth our while. Like a 1st and a solid prospect, or one of Barzal/Dal Colle and a 2nd. Even then I wouldn't do that trade. Maybe I'd do Hamonic + 1st + Barzal/Dal Colle, but the Islanders would refuse that point-blank. It would be a complete non-starter.

The Isles, if they're going to move Hamonic, are going to have to readjust their perception on what they'd be able to get for him, and Flames fans should readjust their perspective on what Hamonic's value actually is.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I'll start off saying i highly doubt the flames would trade Gio before his contract kicks in. That said , even if the flames offered Gio for Hamonic would the Isles even do that trade? They already have their captain and are paying him for it. I'm not saying having more leadership would be a bad thing, but IMO the reason the flames gave Gio the term and $'s was because he is the captain going forward. Have to think he got an extra year of term and some money because he is the captain going forward. Plus as much as i like that the flames gave Gio an extension, i am no fool. The last couple of years of that contract are going to hurt.

In my opinion this has to be a joke right?

In the summer if the Islanders fans were goin to ask for Gio with Haminic being the return the Flames fans would ask for Strome/Dal Colle/Barzal in return easily. Before October Gio was considered top 5 by most fans and media. He is off to a disappointing start but is not playing like absolute garbage. Now we are a quarter into the season and people question of the Islanders would consider a 1 for 1 swap? Especially now when Haminic is requesting a trade to basically 3 teams?

[Poe969]

Raymond had a decent game a while ago but is asking for a trade. Crosby is playing like garbage. I don't know if I'd do a one for one swap.

I know Gio is no Crosby and Hamonic is no Raymond but Gio is a lot better than Hamonic is even though right now Hamonic is playing better than Gio. The one for one swap about them has to stop.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

In my opinion this has to be a joke right?

In the summer if the Islanders fans were goin to ask for Gio with Haminic being the return the Flames fans would ask for Strome/Dal Colle/Barzal in return easily. Before October Gio was considered top 5 by most fans and media. He is off to a disappointing start but is not playing like absolute garbage. Now we are a quarter into the season and people question of the Islanders would consider a 1 for 1 swap? Especially now when Haminic is requesting a trade to basically 3 teams?

Don't pretend you speak for most fans. Unless you only read your own posts here you've clearly seen that many did not want to extend Gio to a massive contract. His value was in limbo with that bicep tear. There was always a question of whether he would get full strength back, or ever return to elite form.