[Trade] Flames trade 15th OA, 45th OA, and 52nd OA for Dougie Hamilton

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

This team really is in shambles if Hamilton has been our second best defenceman.

Yes, it's in shambles, and yes Dougie is our 2nd best defenceman. If you feel like Gio, Engelland, Wideman, or Russell has performed better than him over the last few weeks... who and why?

[pseudoreality]

Prepaying players big bucks on long-term contracts hoping that if the players become elites it will be a good deal is an Oilers strategy that doesn't work. There's nothing wrong with paying an elite player elite money if they earn. FYI there is exactly one defenseman in the league right now who's cap hit is $8-9MM. So does that mean the Flames strategy is based on the assumption that Hamilton will be the best defenseman in the game in 2-3 years?

[Poe969]

LOL, the team is in shambles or haven't you noticed? Realistically, Hamilton should likely be our third best defender behind Gio and Brodie but Gio is clearly struggling right now. Wideman isn't in the Flames top 4 and Russell hasn't played like he should be in the top 4 either. Brodie is an all star.

It's easy to pick apart anyone's play but if you look at some of the small things Hamilton does you'd be crazy not to think he's been our second best guy. The best example was during the caps game where he just took the puck away from Ovi and turned it into a scoring chance. It wasn't a big fancy play but he didn't get beat like most everyone else does by Ovi, and he transitioned the play to a scoring chance. Hamilton hasn't had a lot of ice time but that's not because he hasn't been playing well, I think it started that way but now I think it's just Hartley being stubborn. I don't know why we're not seeing a regular pairing of Hamilton and Brodie

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

Prepaying players big bucks on long-term contracts hoping that if the players become elites it will be a good deal is an Oilers strategy that doesn't work. There's nothing wrong with paying an elite player elite money if they earn. FYI there is exactly one defenseman in the league right now who's cap hit is $8-9MM. So does that mean the Flames strategy is based on the assumption that Hamilton will be the best defenseman in the game in 2-3 years?

You must be in an alternate reality or something...

Prepaying a player on a big bucks deal isn't really what the Flames did. Hamilton isn't getting paid like a top pairing guy, it's not like they gave him 8-9 million now. There's nothing wrong with paying an elite player a lot but it's better if you can not pay him a lot. Contracts like these pay as much for potential as anything and the Flames aren't the only team to ever do that. Instead of giving a bridge deal that ends when Hamilton begins to be a UFA, they paid him more to buy those UFA years. It's a risk every GM takes on contracts. Hamilton is trending upwards and has looked good so far in his career, if he doesn't improve from where he's at then this contract becomes "meh" but if he improves (which most people are betting on) then this contract becomes great. The Flames aren't betting on Hamilton being the best defender in the game, but they're betting he'll be better than he is now.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Poe969

He's not the 5th best defenseman on the team, he's the 5th most used. Hamilton was probably the B's best defender last year, do you honestly think he regressed that much or do you think that the coach is not playing him properly. I'd be willing to bet actual money that if you asked most any fan who they'd want from the Flames D, the top 2 answers would be Brodie and Hamilton. If you honestly think that Wideman and Russell are better than Hamilton, you should just stop.

So you are saying that Hartley and the coaching staff needs to be fired immediately for their mishandling of this generational talent that has fallen into his lap. That random fans could handle Hamilton better?

Why was Hartley's game plan in Washington basically avoiding having Hamilton on the ice at the same time as Ovechkin?

Hamilton is getting the 5th most minutes and protected minutes. It makes it hard to be a top pairing D-man (as most of the Flames fan boys on this thread are blindly saying he is) when you can't be on the ice against the other team's top line.

[adc]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So you are saying that Hartley and the coaching staff needs to be fired immediately for their mishandling of this generational talent that has fallen into his lap. That random fans could handle Hamilton better?

Why was Hartley's game plan in Washington basically avoiding having Hamilton on the ice at the same time as Ovechkin?

Hamilton is getting the 5th most minutes and protected minutes. It makes it hard to be a top pairing D-man (as most of the Flames fan boys on this thread are blindly saying he is) when you can't be on the ice against the other team's top line.

Is that what most "fanboys" saying about him?

I think he is ideally a 2nd paring guy right that has the skills to develop into a top pairing guy but with Gio sucking so far this year he is our second best defenseman so may have to be thrown into that role.

From what I have seen most are saying he has top pairing potential and realize that it is moronic to make sweeping generalizations about a 22 year old defenseman.

Oh and to answer your Hartley question even though it wasn't addressed to me I would say yes Hartley is mismanaging Hamilton and the defensive group as a whole this year.

[Poe969]

nvm he's just not worth it...

[Gaskal]

Please stop quoting that buffoon

[Hackey]

Hamilton getting protected minutes would make sense since is he only 22 and he is coming to a new team and system. We have strong defensive depth and there is no need to throw him to the wolves. Let's judge him after 2-3 years not 19 games.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Hamilton getting protected minutes would make sense since is he only 22 and he is coming to a new team and system. We have strong defensive depth and there is no need to throw him to the wolves. Let's judge him after 2-3 years not 19 games.

I don't think that Dougie is the type of player you mollycoddle for too long though, even with that disastrous start. His improvement indicates that. He went from a player who we wanted Hartley to staple to the bench, to one of our more reliable d-men in just a few weeks.

Our defensive system is still really suspect, but the scoring has come back somewhat and Ramo has settled in. I'd actually start feeding him more and more minutes and responsibilities until he's playing top pairing with Brodie - I think this pairing is inevitable; more of a when than an if.

I think once that happens both players will breakout. Dougie is steadily improving. Brodie on the left pairing means he wouldn't have to resort to the backhand for the outlet passes ( as great as it currently is ) and he'd have more control and range on the forehand.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

This team really is in shambles if Hamilton has been our second best defenceman.

Shambles is an accurate description of the team

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

I don't think that Dougie is the type of player you mollycoddle for too long though, even with that disastrous start. His improvement indicates that. He went from a player who we wanted Hartley to staple to the bench, to one of our more reliable d-men in just a few weeks.

Our defensive system is still really suspect, but the scoring has come back somewhat and Ramo has settled in. I'd actually start feeding him more and more minutes and responsibilities until he's playing top pairing with Brodie - I think this pairing is inevitable; more of a when than an if.

I think once that happens both players will breakout. Dougie is steadily improving. Brodie on the left pairing means he wouldn't have to resort to the backhand for the outlet passes ( as great as it currently is ) and he'd have more control and range on the forehand.

Hamilton will get more minutes when the other team's coaches stop playing their top 6 so much.... You really can't correlate Hamilton's improvement due to him being sheltered and play a lot less?


He starts the game with Russell as the #2 pairing and consistently plays himself into the bottom pairing. Hartley has given him every opportunity but game after game sees Wideman and Russell as better options.

[Poe969]

So you're admitting that he's a second pairing guy? If he's starting the game on the second pairing, he's at worst a #4 not a #5... I can tell reading comprehension isn't your strongest but I didn't think your math would be that bad....

The thing to focus on here is that we have Brodie as ouor #1 guy and then we have 5 #5 guys, ice time be damned.

[VladtheImpaler]

Let me ask you this, guys - what is Hamilton's upside? Is it Bouwmeester? More offensive upside? Just want some well-reasoned opinions. Thanks.

[calgaryblood]

So Hartley the coach of the year needs advice on Hamilton apparently. I guess him playing
Him the 5th most is just Hartley being a terrible coach. Or maybe he sees he's really struggling and wants to lighten his load.

Hamilton has improved since the beginning of the year but he's playing the easiest minutes on the team and still playing soft.

As bad as Gio has been right now I'd put Brodie, Gio, and yes even Engelland ahead of Hamilton and Russell is really struggling so that puts Hamilton 4th and that can change when Russel plays better. Hamilton can play better too but it's happening at a very slow pace and he is still making criticial mistakes.

I just think it's straight homerism when people can sit there and say Hamilton has been the second best defenceman this year. That's what Oiler fans have done for 10 years. Hamilton has been terrible this season to average. He's had maybe two above average games all season.

[Trailer Fire]

I only got, like, 30% of that. I get the impression you don't like Hamilton, and I don't really know why. He hasn't lived up to your top 5 in the league expectations?

[Poe969]

I hate how people are saying "you think Hartley needs advice"

Have you seen the team play? I'd say they're hot garbage but they're really not that hot. Hartley has been out coached in games, whatever he did to inspire the team last year isn't working now and he clearly hasn't found a way to get through to the team and make them play better. The "system" the team is playing just isn't working, he's not benching players and IMO he's not giving the right players a chance. Everyone seems to rag on Wideman and say he's been terrible and he needs to be benched...Hartley isn't doing that. Wouldn't you rather have Hamilton who's playing better increase his minutes and decrease Wideman's? Isn't just about anyone who critiques the team telling Hartley what to do? For the record, I think Hartley is doing a poor job. I don't know why we haven't seen extended periods of Hamilton with Brodie. Gio has been bad and he still looks hurt but because of who he is, he's getting the ice time.

[1_Flames_Fan]

How did Hamilton put up so many points in Boston last year? Better system? Better players? More opportunities? Chara?

[Gaskal]

Last year: Always Earned Never Given
This year: Once Earned Always Given

Not happy with Hartley so far this year.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

I only got, like, 30% of that. I get the impression you don't like Hamilton, and I don't really know why. He hasn't lived up to your top 5 in the league expectations?

I don't like the way he's playing. I was ecstatic when we got him, and I have also commented on how bad Gio has been as well even though he's been one of my favourite players since before he left to Russia.